Darrell Jones on Resisting the Cultural Changes of Public Schools

On this episode of Anchored, Soren is joined by Darrell Jones, president of the Stanley M. Herzog Foundation. The two discuss how public school culture has changed over the past few years by becoming more resistant to faith. They also explore the work of the Herzog Foundation in enlightening parents, strengthening school culture, and training future Christian school leaders. They conclude by unpacking the foundation’s SchoolBox Initiative, and the purpose, goals, and recent successes that accompany it.  

Today’s episode of Anchored is brought to you with support from America’s Christian Credit Union. Find out how ACCU can be the banking partner to your school or family by visiting americaschristiancu.com/CLT.

Transcript

Soren Schwab (CLT) (00:00.648)
Welcome back to the Anchored Podcast, the official podcast of the Classic Learning Test. My name is Soren Schwab, VP of Partnerships here at CLT, and today we are joined by Darryl Jones. Darryl was in college at Missouri Western State University when he was hired as a youth pastor and worship leader at Grace Evangelical Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. He remained in that position until stepping into the role of senior pastor in the late 1990s. He left pastoral ministry in 2021.

to join the Stanley M. Herzog Foundation. Darryl now resides in Smithville, Missouri with his wife Tammy, and we are so delighted to have him on the podcast today. Welcome, Darryl.

Darrell Jones (00:40.141)
Thank you, Soren. It's a pleasure to be with you. I'm a fan of your work for sure.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (00:45.192)
Likewise, likewise, I've really enjoyed getting to know you the last few months and we're going to talk about your work at Stanley Herzog Foundation and just about the state of Christian education in general. Before we do so, we always start the Anchored Podcast by talking about our guest's own educational background. And so you're a former pastor, you're in Christian Ed, so I have to assume you went to Christian Ed in K-12?

Darrell Jones (01:11.842)
That would be the assumption. And that would be, and yet a faulty assumption at that. I grew up in rural Missouri, agricultural Missouri, went K through 12 through the public school system. My wife went K through 12 through the public school system. We graduated from the same high school, the same year. She was my high school sweetheart. We married, we raised our children in the same community.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (01:13.974)
Hahaha

Darrell Jones (01:40.59)
All three of our daughters who are now grown women and married and producing amazingly beautiful and intelligent offspring. What are the odds of that? They were all K through 12, public education as well. As I pastored, we had a number. One year we were recognized as having more families in the Christian school from our church.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (01:49.728)
Yeah.

Darrell Jones (02:08.498)
than any other church in town, which was a great milestone. But it wasn't because we did anything to promote it. It was just an option that families chose. I will tell you, when my first grandchild was born, that was the moment that I told my wife, I pray that every one of my grandkids goes to a Christian school. Because even pastoring, within the last five years, we have just seen,

bold lines being drawn in American culture, where faith is not tolerated, faith is targeted by society and by culture. And clearly, readlion.com is a news source where we're talking about what's going on in education across the country, K through 12. And we're writing stories every day about how faith is under fire in government schools across the country.

And so that's been, I was seeing that as a pastor and I'm thrilled that I have kids, grandchildren that are in Christian schools across the country. So we praise the Lord for that.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (03:19.204)
It's really interesting. And I sometimes push back, whether it's parents or school leaders that say, well, when I went, when I grew up and I went to public school, I was fine. And I'm a little younger, I'm 36, right? But I'd like to push back and say, well, times have changed a little bit, culture has changed a little bit. And I think the idea of salt and light, while admirable, I think once it's your own children or grandchildren, maybe there are lines that you also want to draw. And it seems like

your daughter and grandchildren have drawn that line?

Darrell Jones (03:52.83)
Yeah, that's exactly right. And we've really encouraged them in that. We have, my grandchildren call my wife Honey, and they call me Duda. Now there's a whole story behind that that's not worth our time, but the bottom line is I'm thrilled to report that we have grandchildren that are recipients of the annual Honey and Duda Christian Education Scholarship. And the scholarship committee, interestingly, has always awarded the full scholarship.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (04:15.71)
Wonderful.

Darrell Jones (04:21.526)
to each one of the applicants. So we're thrilled to be invested like that with our grandchildren. But yeah, I mean, I think I grew up again in rural America and have great nostalgic memories of my education experience. Here's what I'll tell you. While the buildings that I was educated in still exist, it's a different system. The education system is different.

And so while my experience was my experience, it is not the experience of children or classrooms today. And I think that's why you're seeing across the country this major push for ESAs and for vouchers and for education choice, where parents are pushing back and saying, we're not happy with the education product that is available to us. We want more options for our children. And I mean, you're seeing states

across the country that are pushing these major initiatives that honestly in my lifetime I never dreamed that we would see.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (05:26.696)
Right. And I think what's beautiful too, especially with the ESAs, I mean, I think initially, right, homeschool families and private schools were a little skeptical of, especially of vouchers. And there was this perceived, what are some of the strings that are attached? And I know in certain states, if you accept certain dollars, right, you have to do, whether it's training on sexuality, whether it's, you know, CRT, DEI.

Darrell Jones (05:53.4)
Thank you.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (05:57.016)
But really the latest legislation, it seems like, is really benefiting Christian schools. Are you seeing that as well, that there's kind of been a shift in the mindset on the part of Christian educators?

Darrell Jones (06:08.394)
Yeah, to a large degree there has been. I think there are still segments of education that are very skeptical. And to be fair, there is a slippery slope. There is reason for concern. However, having pastored for 35 years, we had a 501C3, which is a contractual agreement regarding dollars with the state. But we felt like in mitigating the risks,

it was beneficial for us to have that 501c3, although there were always people who were saying, yeah, but what if the government tells you that you have to do certain things because you're tax exempt? Well, here's the thing, at that point, they can have their piece of paper. We're principled. We're not going to violate our own faith, our own values, our own conscience, certainly for money. They can have their piece of paper, but they've not done that.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (06:45.913)
Hmm

Darrell Jones (07:04.522)
And so to not utilize the benefit when they've not pushed us, that's our position at the Herzlok Foundation.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (07:15.904)
Yeah, and then you mentioned your online magazine, The Lion, and I attended a Herzog Foundation School Choice Summit in Florida too long ago, and on the stage, on panels, in particular, one recipient of these ESAs and School Choice, and ended up being able to attend a Christian school, and transformational, absolutely transformational for that.

particular individual. And I know there's thousands of those stories out there, right? And so, but yes, I think I think you're right. There's a healthy dose of skepticism. That's good, right? That's that's certainly good. And we should never

Darrell Jones (07:47.863)
Bye.

Darrell Jones (07:53.326)
Sure, sure. But I think, you know, our position, our position as a foundation has been whatever we can do for parents to have the freedom to put their kids in what they believe to be the best education for them. We're on the side of parents.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (08:08.58)
I have to tell you, I'm not a regular viewer of The View for various reasons, but every now and then, you know, on Twitter you get...

Darrell Jones (08:17.186)
Nor, nor, nor did they listen, nor did they listen to the anchored podcast, I'm sure. Right. Let's talk. Don't let a reason together.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (08:21.304)
You know, if Whoopi is listening, Whoopi, you can come on, we'll talk about education. But just the other day, I mean, the misinformation about school choice, and it was a conversation, and I'm not remembering the name of the lady, but she was talking about, you know, but school choice is taking away money from the public schools. And then the other lady was pushing back a little bit and saying, but

But you yourself went to private school and I kid you not, Darrell, she said, well, yeah, I was privileged enough to go to private school, but... And that's almost always the... I was privileged enough to, but what? But poor families should not be able to, but school choice for me, but not for thee. It just seems very hypocritical, the stance on school choice. So let's...

Darrell Jones (09:00.942)
Thank you.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (09:16.232)
Let's dig a little bit deeper here. You mentioned the foundation and you know, with CLT sometimes I feel like I hear people saying, wow, like you guys came out of nowhere and like, no, we've been doing it for a long time. It's just slowly we're gaining a bit more traction. You guys have come out of nowhere, but you actually have come out of nowhere. And so talk to us a little bit about the Stanley Herzog and the Herzog foundation. And then of course, how you got connected to them.

Darrell Jones (09:40.394)
Yeah, listen, Mr. Herzog was a great force in road building and in rail across the country. The company that bears his name, the Herzog Corporation, Stanley, by the way, was second generation ownership. It's his father who started the company. They started just paving asphalt roads and parking lots. And at some point, the father said, we need to get into rail. And as they stepped in, honestly, Stanley...

took the trajectory. And I've said, if you live in a community that has a light rail system, Stanley Herzog probably had something to do with it. And through the course of his life, he had a great gift to generate dollars. And interestingly, he sent his children to St. Joseph Christian School in St. Joseph, Missouri. And he saw the value of Christian education through the lens of his own children. And when he passed,

He wanted the whole of his company and all of his assets to be sold off to create the first thing that he ever put his name on in his charity, the Stanley M. Herzog Charitable Foundation with the sole mission of advancing K through 12 Christian education across the United States. So literally hundreds of millions of dollars to be a catalyst.

for a movement in Christian education. And so it's been a great ride for two and a half years now of operation and looking at how we can, within the wide open spaces of Christian education, where are there too few resources that if invested could really make a difference? And so we've identified, I would say, three major lanes that we're trying to operate in. The first one is, if we could talk to

Christian and conservative families that are frustrated with what's going on in public education and reintroduce them to Christian education. If you've not looked at Christian schools for the last 30 years, you should really take another look because it is both Christian and it is good education. And it's educating your children with a solid...

Darrell Jones (12:04.622)
educational foundation that embraces your Christian faith and your values. So ReadLion.com has been our answer to try and talk to families across the country about here's what's going on in that public school that you grew up in that you love so well. This is what's going on across the country and informing them that it's just not the same system, it's not the same day. So ReadLion.com.

became a major initiative for us. One of our latest full-time hires for the lion used to be the lone conservative member of the Kansas City Star editorial board. He left the Kansas City Star, he now works for the Herzog Foundation, and he writes for the lion. So we are thrilled. And within the last three months, the Evangelical Press Association contacted us.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (12:55.52)
Amazing.

Darrell Jones (13:02.546)
and said that The Lion is the number one digital news source for education on the internet. So it's less than, you know, about a year and a half old as an initiative and we are thrilled with that. So really trying to inform families of what's going on and how they can, you know, how they can just see the distinction between Christian education and what Stan Herzog would call the government schools. So ReadLion.com became one initiative. The next initiative was to look at how can we help, you know,

Soren Schwab (CLT) (13:08.116)
Wow.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (13:26.602)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Jones (13:32.594)
Over 10,000 plus Christian schools across the country be stronger and be better at what they do. They love children, they're great with education, but so many heads of school aren't clear on how to run a small business. And so areas of donor development and marketing and enrollment and strategic planning, culture building. It's interesting that right now in America, teachers are leaving public education and they're gravitating to Christian schools.

where they're going to make less money. Why would they do that? Because the culture, because the culture. So how do you build that kind of culture? And then a fifth area is the board and administrator alignment. Everybody moving the wagon in the same direction. So we have created three day intensive trainings for each one of those topics. Three days on donor development, three days on marketing and enrollment, and throughout that list.

And what we say to schools across the country, large or small, if you are a Christian school, you buy a tank of gas or an airline ticket and get to our training and we'll put you up in a Marriott, we'll feed you, we'll bring in the experts, we'll secure the venue, and we'll give you three days of intensive lecture lab training to help you with donor development, to help you with marketing and enrollment. And it's been amazing.

Our very first year of operation by November, we did our very first donor development training. In December that year, we did another one. Last year, we rolled out all five of these and we did 20 trainings virtually every other week. This year, we're on pace to do 50 trainings. Next year, we're scaling to do 100 trainings. We'll have multiple trainings going on at the same time in different parts of the country because Soren, we have a waiting list every time. The need is great.

And if we can help every Christian school be stronger in these kinds of areas, in addition to teacher training and science teacher training at the Arc encounter and the creation museum, Bible teacher training at the museum of the Bible, working with the Bill of Rights Institute on helping civics teachers and history teachers talk about the founding documents of the country, really trying to help Christian schools, as well as organizationally helping them with.

Darrell Jones (15:56.586)
you know, is your school secure for against an intruder? You know, what the 2023, where are your areas of vulnerability? And we have some great partners. We bring in the experts to address the topics, but we're just convening and making it all happen. And again, we say the only expense to the school is to get to the training. Go to HerzogFoundation.com, click on the events tab up at the corner, see what's coming next.

and register and if you register as a Christian school and get a seat, you're in and we'll cover everything else once you get there. So that's become a thing.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (16:36.508)
I couldn't believe when you first mentioned that, and I've attended two of them, and just fantastic. I think you mentioned earlier the training that a lot of these folks that are leaving the public schools, they're trained in progressive education. They might be Christians themselves, right? And oftentimes we don't know what we don't know, that there's a different way of doing things. And so I love...

and a lot of our listeners are teachers. I love that you have these additional resources where they know it's coming from conservative Christian experts that can train them up, that can support them. And I think the other piece that we talk about a lot is leadership development. And we're gonna talk about your other initiative, the school box initiative, but we're opening more schools. Enrollment is growing. How do we keep up with the demand and find leaders

Darrell Jones (17:15.591)
Right.

Darrell Jones (17:28.642)
way. Right.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (17:33.648)
right, that are capable of running these schools. And oftentimes the answer is, well, they're not gonna be as polished yet. So we have to hire the people that really want to, but then we also have to train them up, right? Whether it's academically or whether it's on the business side, on the marketing side. And so the fact that you identified these different pockets to provide that and really at little to no cost is really a blessing for these schools. So I'm so excited that you can share about that. Yeah.

Darrell Jones (17:56.268)
Right.

Yeah, you know, what we found was that 60% of the Christian schools in the country are 150 students or less. So they don't have a lot of marginal dollars for professional development. And all of their education has been in education and pedagogy and how students learn not in how to run a business. And yet, you know, at the point that they're serving as an administrator, they're really not doing classroom work. They're running the business of the school.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (18:18.44)
Yeah.

Darrell Jones (18:27.694)
to allow Christian education to happen in the classrooms. And so that's where we've really tried to leverage our dollars to help strengthen them in their understanding of best practices of growing their schools.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (18:41.276)
Wow, yeah, absolutely fascinating. Well, the first time I heard about you all was I heard about this initiative called School Box. And what a success that has been. And I know our friends at the classical Christian schools have partnered with you all, David Goodwin, Tim Dern and good friends of ours. They're just amazing, amazing people with a heart for Christ, a heart for these children.

Darrell Jones (18:59.559)
Oh yeah, great, great Google.

Good friends to the foundation for sure.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (19:08.916)
Just as last year, so many new schools are opening. But again, oftentimes it's kind of bootstrapping, right? You're like, well, how are we opening a school? Well, there's not really a blueprint. Well, there is, it's called Schoolbox. And so talk to us a little bit about the Schoolbox initiative and how you're helping start up new schools.

Darrell Jones (19:19.456)
Right.

Darrell Jones (19:27.658)
Well, we are very excited about the initiative. We officially rolled it out about three months ago. Well, has it been three months ago? Maybe a little, not much longer than that. And honestly, it was the Association of Classical Christian Schools, ACCS, that said, my goodness, we've got more requests for schools than what we have bandwidth to start them. Can we partner with you and utilize Schoolbox as the foundation for the blueprint, the roadmap?

to launch Christian schools. And then we also have the ability, ACCS has the ability to bring in the ACCS flavor of the school that they're building. And it's been an exciting venture where we talk to folks across the country who've started numerous Christian schools and we asked them, what's the blueprint? And so we created Schoolbox, HF like in Herzog Foundation, HFschoolbox.com.

with the sole purpose of being an online platform where a group of concerned parents, a concerned church, a concerned neighborhood can say, how can we educate our children in an environment that's not hostile to our faith, but that embraces it? And so we created it nimble enough that if, you know, Soren, if you and I wanted to start a Christian school in Kansas City, Missouri, it needs to be Missouri specific. We want a three day a week, hybrid,

classical school that is independent from a church. How do we do that? Where do you start? School Box was created to be state specific. It was created based on what kind of school has God put on your heart to build? School Box will help you build that. And so not only will it give you eight steps, beginning with a market analysis, what is what you're building sustainable in your community? What's the market?

For us a school in your community we walk them through the process of even actually doing that kind of market analysis All the way through curriculum You know 501 c3. Are you for profit not for profit? What kind of curriculum do you use? How do we onboard teachers? What about how do we market to school to families? It's an eight-step process, but here's where we believe the secret sauce is once

Darrell Jones (21:48.718)
Sorin and Daryl tell the Herzog Foundation via hfschoolbox.com, we want a five day a week, classical high school that is meeting in a church. Then the Herzog Foundation, through our growing network of educators, will find someone in the country who's currently running that kind of Christian school, and we will pay them to coach our launch team.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (22:10.739)
Yep.

Darrell Jones (22:16.622)
through the eight steps of School Box, so that we're putting someone riding shotgun in the car with the launch team to help answer the questions because they're running this kind of school. And I'm excited to tell you that in September of 2023, we are launching 68 brand new Christian schools. Half of them are classical, interestingly, half of them are traditional.

but they're located in 34 states across the country. And we are thrilled with that. And we believe it's, I mean, honestly, for 2024, schools are already in queue and lining up to begin the process of walking through school box. So we're thrilled for that initiative and really believe it's something that God's gonna use to help concerned parents have new Christian options.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (23:08.64)
That's absolutely incredible. 68. 68 new schools. Right, right.

Darrell Jones (23:12.266)
Isn't that fun? And we just rolled it out within the year. I mean, that's what's so amazing to me. There's that kind of frustration among parents across the country. That's very clear.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (23:19.225)
Well, but yeah, I.

Right, exactly right. Yeah, yeah. And I think and we've seen that I've talked with a gentleman just last week on a separate podcast about what has changed these last few years. And of course, a lot has changed, right? But I think one thing has been concerned parents, not just being concerned, but then taking the next step and making changes, getting involved, right? The curtain has been lifted. And so for parents to...

Darrell Jones (23:42.606)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Darrell Jones (23:47.857)
Right.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (23:49.908)
get involved and help start these schools. And it's beautiful. You mentioned, you know, some of them are hybrid schools, micro schools, five day, three day, all kinds of flavors, all kinds of states. The concern is the same, but then the way it's executed is different. But the fact that you're providing this kind of blueprint for them. And I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit. And some of my connections, some of them are dear friends that are now, and correct me if I'm wrong, do you call them coaches? Do you call them mentors? The school?

Darrell Jones (23:56.792)
Right.

Darrell Jones (24:18.626)
Yeah, they're mentors. Yeah.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (24:19.472)
mentors, right, that are now also mentor at Herzog Foundation is incredible. I think that's your biggest strength that they're not walking that walk alone.

Darrell Jones (24:26.438)
I love it. Yeah, amen. We feel very excited about it. And you know, I would say we talked about it just to a degree earlier, just in my own story and Christian education and how I got here. But I would say to every pastor in the country, you know, when I pastored for 35 years, the first 11 years, I was a full time youth worker, youth pastor. I love the role of youth pastor, never wanted to be a senior pastor. Why would I want that job?

And then I drew the short straw and for 20 plus years was the senior pastor. But realistically, you know, we were a church that had a thriving children's ministry, a thriving youth ministry. And it was great through the eighties and nineties and even at the turn of the century. But I would say in 2023, every pastor that's serious about discipling the youth and the children of their church really need to embrace

Soren Schwab (CLT) (24:56.992)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Darrell Jones (25:23.694)
Christian education where what, five days a week, seven hours a day, you're not exporting, you know, your children to a system that is hostile to their faith. And education ministries in churches really are beginning to pop up all across the country. And I would say if I were in the pulpit in 2023 and still pastoring a local congregation, I would be very serious.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (25:31.742)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Jones (25:52.99)
about how do we launch a Christian school out of our church, or at least how do we embrace the home educators and the Christian schools that are in our community if they exist. So, you know, the kind of services that we hope that Schoolbox can provide really is even to give tools to churches and pastors as to, well, if we want to do this, how do we do this? hfschoolbox.com

We'd love to help you.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (26:23.304)
I absolutely love it. And I keep thinking about, you know, politically speaking, right? And this, of course, transcends politics. I put politically speaking, conservatives not always been known to be the innovators, right? To embrace new things, to think very creative. These last few years, the kind of innovation that's been happening on the conservative side and Christian side has been has been mind boggling. It's been amazing, incredible. And I think school box is just one other iteration of.

thinking creatively about how can we better serve, how can we make a difference. And so I am excited. I hope a lot of our listeners are as fired up as we are, Daryl. And of course I'm looking for a 2024. I don't know what we're gonna name our school, Daryl, but it's gonna be great. We're gonna start a school in a, all right? We can do it, why not?

Darrell Jones (27:04.161)
Yeah.

Darrell Jones (27:10.72)
That's right, let's do it right on. Is Thorin and Daryl's school of fun? I would go to that school.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (27:17.528)
I would totally go to that Christian fun. We're not busy, we're not busy, man. We could do that. Absolutely incredible. This was wonderful. I do want to ask you one last question. And we always ask that question on the Anchor podcast. Is there one book or one text that you could point back to and say, you know what, this was one of the most impactful reading I have ever done and why?

Darrell Jones (27:21.134)
Christian, right, absolutely. I love it.

Darrell Jones (27:45.474)
I was in pastoral ministry for a few years before I was really introduced to the writing of A.W. Tozer. And I would say about anything that Tozer writes scratches where I itch, but specifically his classic book, The Pursuit of God, where he talks about how evangelicals have focused so much on the altar that we're building.

and making sure that the sacrifice is just right, that we've lost sight of, there's no fire. There's no fire. And yes, the altar is important and the sacrifice is important, but then to long for the presence of God to come and breathe life into this structure. It gives me goosebumps, you know, and thinking about when God created man, he created a structure, right? He made a structure.

and then he breathed into it. And I think what the church needs, what Christians need, what as a pastor I needed was not simply the structure. I needed the structure, right? The structure, God used a structure. Structure is not bad, structure's good. But the presence of God to breathe life into it has certainly, I've continued to go back to the pursuit of God.

devotionally, just in my own personal life, as one of those books that just kind of reformat again in the busyness of life, what matters and what's important. And it does elevate and talk about the significance of structure and what we're building, but also very mindfully brings in the idea that it's a work of God and a move of God. And are we creating space?

for God to do what God does. And that's been very impactful.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (29:43.06)
Beautiful. That is certainly a first on the Anchor podcast. So I really appreciate your sharing that and love your heart and your passion for Christ, but for education as well. And so, again, we're here with Daryl Jones, who is the president of the Stanley M. Herzog Foundation. Daryl, what a blessing to have you on Anchored. Thank you so much for joining.

Darrell Jones (30:03.566)
Absolutely a blessing to be here and I'm confident that our paths will cross somewhere on the circuit again.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (30:10.6)
You know it, brother.

Darrell Jones (30:12.298)
Lord bless you, friend.