Anchored by the Classic Learning Test

The Case for Cursive | Jake Weidmann

November 30, 2023 Classic Learning Test
Anchored by the Classic Learning Test
The Case for Cursive | Jake Weidmann
Show Notes Transcript

On this episode of Anchored, Soren is joined by Jake Weidmann, one of nine master penmen in the world. Join them to hear about Jake’s journey to becoming a master penman and the history of beautiful penmanship. Jake also unpacks his case for cursive as a critical connection between the brain and the page and shares his best advice for instilling a love of art in students today.

Today’s episode of Anchored is brought to you with support from America’s Christian Credit Union. Find out how ACCU can be the banking partner to your school or family by visiting

Soren Schwab (CLT) (00:01.571)
Welcome back to the Anchored Podcast, the official podcast of the Classic Learning Test. My name is Soren Chua, VP of Partnerships here at CLT, and today we are joined by Jake Weidman. Jake is a professional artist and certified as one of only nine master penmen in the world. Jake was certified through IM-Peth, which is the International Association of Master Penmen, and grocers, and teachers of handwriting in July 2011.

He holds the title as the youngest master penman by three decades and is the youngest to ever attain the title. A few of Jake's peers have done work for the White House, Queen Elizabeth, and even the Pope. His journey into calligraphy has been the, quote unquote, special sauce for everything he now creates, incorporating the traditional calligraphic flourishing into his fine art. Jake is self-taught in each of his disciplines, calligraphy, painting, drawing.

woodworking and engraving. While he typically works with private clients, Jake has worked with Apple, Crossway Books and Biola University and has spoken on countless stages including TEDx and Think, and was even featured on PBS television. And Jake, it is such an honor to have you on Anchor today. Welcome.

Jake Weidmann (01:15.426)
Oh, thank you so much. It's an honor to be with you.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (01:18.55)
Yeah, I mean, one of I don't even know where to start. I have so many questions, but we got to be disciplined here and start with the question I always asked first of our guests. Talk to us a little bit about your own educational journey. I read in the bio you were self-taught as a master penman, but I assume you were not self-taught in all things school. So what kind of schools did you attend? Were you homeschooled? Did you go to public private school?

Jake Weidmann (01:42.318)
Yes, man. Well, to give you a very brief synopsis, I did a lot of private Christian school growing up and then did a stint of homeschooling from second grade up till about sixth grade. That was really wonderful. I was homeschooled with some of my other siblings. There were four of us, so my mom certainly had her hands full.

Jake Weidmann (02:11.546)
went to public school for high school and then went to Biola University to get my degree in psychology. And all the while, I never actually received any formal training in art. I mean, outside of the master-pendman program where you're essentially an apprentice to one of the other existing masters for a minimum of a year, outside of that, I had no...

No training as an artist, so everything else was just self-taught. A lot of experimentation.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (02:45.57)
Wow, was your home, your parents, your siblings, were there, was there a lot of art around you? Was it just something you were immersed in, in art and beauty? Or was it really something that your mom looks back to and said, I have no idea how Jake turned out the way he did it. That was uncharacteristic.

Jake Weidmann (03:03.487)
Probably more of that. You know, there was very little artistic influence in my family. My mom maybe had just a little bit of it. She had really beautiful handwriting, which was deeply inspiring to me, as did my grandma. But my other siblings, you know, really showed no interest in art, really had no talent for art whatsoever. So in that regard, I was very much...

kind of going it alone, and there was no real precedent for it within my family lineage. But it was just something that I loved. I took to right away and always came naturally. It was my favorite pastime and my closest friend growing up and it was just something I loved to do.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (03:50.65)
And so you mentioned you went to Biola, which is by the way, one of our CLT partner colleges. We just had a podcast with two folks from the Tory Honors College, not long ago, and it's a wonderful, wonderful place there out in California. But tell us about your journey to becoming a master penman. I told you kind of in the pre-recording that I wasn't even aware that there are master penmen, let alone that there are only nine left in the world. How did you learn about this and then kind of

Jake Weidmann (03:57.484)
Oh, wonderful.

Yeah! Yeah.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (04:19.97)
What is the process to become a master penman? You mentioned apprenticeship.

Jake Weidmann (04:23.658)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it actually happened while I was at Biola getting my degree in psychology. I can still remember sort of the day that started me down this rabbit's hole. I was in cognitive psychology class and there was a girl sitting next to me who was engaged to be married and she said, at the end of class, she pulled me aside and said, hey, I

I'm getting married right now. I need somebody to write my invitations. I've been sitting next to you, watching you write these beautiful notes, and I've gone through a slew of calligraphers and I like your handwriting the most. And I was like, well, look, I'm using a ballpoint pen. I have no idea how to actually do true calligraphy, but it's something that I've always wanted to do. Because at that point, I was just mimicking different fonts and different historic handwriting that I had seen.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (05:07.435)
Ha ha!

Jake Weidmann (05:21.134)
but without really understanding the types of tools that they were using, the techniques, or knowing any of the fundamental forms. So that night I went back to my dorm room and did a deep search on the internet and just started poking around trying to find these old historic forms of calligraphy. And I stumbled upon this video on YouTube of one of the existing Master Penmen, John DeColobus, who is the greatest...

greatest living ornamental penman. And he was doing some like demonstrations with this crazy instrument, which I have now come to know and love. And it's like an extension of my body, but it's this awkward tool called an oblique pen holder that holds the nib off to the side. And it's a dip style pen, but it's made specifically for beautiful script calligraphy. And I saw these

these videos which were very grainy and not very well produced, but still I was absolutely entranced in what I saw. And so I then learned that he was a master penman and that there was this association keeping the art form alive. And so further down the rabbit's hole I went and just never looked back. It was just this beautiful discovery that I...

just was chasing with everything that I could, even though I was still diligently chipping away at my degree at Biola.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (06:55.913)
So how long then from that moment, and I love that you still remember that exact moment when it's like, wow, this is something I want to do to becoming a master penman. I mean, was that was this month? Was that years?

Jake Weidmann (07:10.366)
Um, this was probably over, over a couple of months, you know, once I figured out what the association was about, once I learned that there was such a thing, um, I knew that I wanted to pursue it. So I reached out to the association and actually got in touch with one of the other master penman, Michael soul, who has also become like a dear friend and mentor of mine. And, um, and so I wrote him a letter and I got his address through the association, wrote him a letter. And, uh,

received back in the mail this like gorgeous letter from him from my campus mailbox. I pulled out this envelope with this beautiful ornamental penmanship with these letters that just looked like they were they were dancing all about and within it he gave me a copy of his volume one book and he told me he said Jake I'm very excited about your journey into penmanship but before you begin you need to know the history and so it was

It was through him that he introduced me to all of these rich characters who really formed the golden age of penmanship. These very innovative artists and penmen who, who shaped the art form and, um, and raised it to a level that it had never gone to before. And so that was, I loved that. I actually, for me, that made the experience all the more rich. Um, so, uh, and, and

knowing the history also made me have a better understanding of what I was actually chasing after.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (08:44.654)
That's amazing. I can picture there at university and getting this beautiful letter. I mean, we can probably all think, when was the last time we received a beautifully written card or a letter? And I think that's kind of the transition I want to make to, you know, I mean, it's, we talk about, obviously, we're talking about art. But what I think we can agree, it's, we're also talking about almost like a lost art. At CLT, we do still write handwritten thank you cards, right?

Jake Weidmann (08:56.132)

Jake Weidmann (09:03.426)

Jake Weidmann (09:12.319)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (09:12.65)
meeting with the school or with the university, we want to acknowledge them and have that personal touch, but that's rare, right? It kind of oddballs it and still doing that. And so you obviously were not only a master penman, but also preserving this what now seems to be a lost art. Now, one of the things that maybe some folks don't even consider an art is just the writing of cursive. Now, when I grew up, I learned how to write cursive, but that is now not the norm anymore.

Jake Weidmann (09:20.977)
Oh no, no.

Jake Weidmann (09:39.309)
I mean...

Soren Schwab (CLT) (09:42.062)
A lot of students, they one-to-one iPad, from the beginning, they start typing. And if they're lucky, they learn how to actually still write. And if it is, probably more print versus cursive. So talk to me a little bit about what you see as the importance of writing in cursive, maybe even developmentally, instead of typing, and why it's important to carry on that tradition of cursive writing.

Jake Weidmann (09:42.423)

Jake Weidmann (09:53.26)

Jake Weidmann (10:07.082)
Yeah, absolutely. And even though, you know, it's like the association that I'm a part of, it's I am path. And so, you know, they actually adopted they brought in teachers of handwriting to be a part of the association, because it was such a critical part of what they did. Yes, calligraphy is an art form and Cali means beautiful graph means to write. So it just means beautiful writing and that really

casts a rather large umbrella. And so beautiful writing is something that was devised very early on, but meant to be practical in the form of cursive handwriting. And so, you know, and to touch on a bit of like history there, I mean, the father of American heritage handwriting, the very first master penman was Platt Roger Spencer.

and he believed that God, who is the originator of all beauty, had instilled his beauty in nature. So if he derived inspiration from nature for his handwriting, then he'd have the beauty of God in his own hand. And there was this beautiful theology undergirding what he was actually doing. And at that time, there was this great Western expansion in the United States. And so there was this need for a very practical and consistent form of handwriting to be taught

little pop-up independent school houses. And so Platt Rogers Spencer's form really kind of took off as the ideal form because it was a little bit more efficient, it was easier to write and it utilized, you know, the actual movements of the body to execute. And then from there, you have other master penmen who simplified the form even further. You know, Aaron Palmer, he was another master penman who...

He actually worked for the railroads and he was recording everything that came through on every train car. That was his responsibility to chronicle all of the inventory. So he was writing all day long in these huge ledger books. And so from that, he really developed this form of writing that was really, really efficient. And so he started creating a school curriculum which propagated through the schools for decades, really.

Jake Weidmann (12:34.45)
And so that is what we've come to know. So it's rooted, cursive handwriting today takes its roots to the same form of like ornamental penmanship, that which I use in my art pieces and special calligraphic works. It still traces its roots back to that. And cursive handwriting is critically important in this day and age. Well,

in any age really because it's so critical to the formation of the formation and development of the brain. Because it's not just, you know, they have found there are studies of like kids who actually sit down and write and because they're forming the individual words and letters, they have a deeper understanding of the anatomy that make up those letters and so it's more easy to recognize them on the page when they are written. And so when you actually

Compound that with a cursive form that links those letters one to another it creates even more this Interconnectiveness in the brain and so it was really it's really cool to see you know What what is playing out on the page is very close to what is actually going on inside of our brains And so it's very important And I think that We might be seeing a shift back to that

because there was, in around about like 2010 to 2014, there were a lot of school programs that were taking handwriting out of schools altogether, at least cursive handwriting. And then there were some states like Indiana that was requiring no handwriting being taught in the schools at all. It was essentially a sent home packet with the parents.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (14:14.583)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jake Weidmann (14:28.262)
because they thought that all things would be just typed out and there was no, you know, there was no detriment to typing versus handwriting. But it seems like the tide has shifted a little bit because we've seen such a decline in our children's learning by not having those critical elements of writing being taught in the schools.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (14:54.354)
Yeah, that's real. Thank you for that overview. That makes sense because I never taught in the younger grades in elementary school, but it was always explained to me that writing in cursive also builds fluency, right? Because you are connecting the letters and the words and going through those motions. And so I can see that being critically important for younger children.

Jake Weidmann (15:22.57)
Yeah, I mean, because it helps, you know, it helps order the letters. So that helps kind of fight dysgraphia. It creates a, or dyslexia, because it creates a stronger connectivity between the letters. And then it also fights dysgraphia, which is flipping the letters, you know, backwards from what they should be. And so by, through cursive, there is...

There's sort of this one way street of execution by not lifting your hand from the page in the way that they connect and flow into the next letter helps cement that more in the brain and give them, you know, give these growing minds a deeper understanding of the letters themselves.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (16:10.238)
Yeah, no, that's powerful. And I'm noticing even that I'm getting lazy, right? Because if you're in your texting or you're on your iPad, you type in two letters, it already gives you the word. You don't even have to think about it anymore. But then when you have to write, I'm like, wait, how is that again? And so if that's doing it to my brain, who's actually been taught spelling and writing and cursive, I can't even imagine what it can do to younger minds and really inhibiting that formation.

Jake Weidmann (16:19.815)
Right. Yeah.

Jake Weidmann (16:24.522)

Jake Weidmann (16:30.35)

Jake Weidmann (16:35.087)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (16:37.482)
Now, let's talk a little bit about art. So we don't maybe not think about just learning how to write and write cursive as an art form. You mentioned the word calligraphy, and absolutely we think, well, that's art. I guess make the case for our listeners, we have Chad GPT now, we have AI. I just saw that you can submit like a picture of your face and it turns it into like a head.

professional headshot, right? I mean, there's, there's so many things now we can do, including, I'm sure, and I haven't looked yet, Jake, but I'm sure there's some programs, right, that can do the calligraphy for you. They can do, right, they can do produce a lot of that art artificially.

Jake Weidmann (17:07.538)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (17:23.326)
if there are educators listening, right, and that maybe are struggling with the cultural current of like, what's the purpose? Why are we still doing that? Right? And I'm sure a lot of the students are saying that. What would you tell them, maybe words of encouragement, and how can they encourage their students to instill a love for art, for truth, for beauty, through calligraphy, through beautiful writing?

Jake Weidmann (17:47.019)

Yeah, well, I think educators are right on the, they're right on the tip of the spear, so to speak, when it comes to the development and purpose for doing these things, for learning the way that we do. I think that, because it is, the reason why you educate yourself is for self-development. It's not just to be, to turn something out that is

that is quickly executed and you know it's like if the machine can do it for you then might as well just abdicate it to the machine. It's like well that that's all well and good for the sake of the machine but what does that actually do for your own personal development? How does that grow you? How does that change the way that you think, the way that you function, and the way that you perceive the world? Because that's what that's essentially what you're giving up if you

to some machine than that is, then it's your loss. It's not, it's nothing gained. And so I think that, you know, it's really important for us to consider these things going forward. Now I happen to believe that with the rise of things like AI art, that there's going to be sort of an inflationary effect to it. Because the internet is what it's essentially doing. And I actually, I gave a talk.

on this topic and had to do sort of a deep dive into AI art in order to understand it better. But essentially what it's doing is it's scraping the internet of everything that pre-exists and it's sort of rehashing it into something new based on prompts. And it's like, that's not really, that's not truly generative, you know, that's not true creativity. It has, you know, it has all the smoke and mirrors.

Jake Weidmann (19:50.182)
of this great illusion of being creative, but that's not true creativity. That's not something that you are actually generating. And even so, if it's producing something, what we value by humans creating is there is a deeper sense of meaning automatically associated because of the source from whence it came.

Because when we look at an example that I gave recently, there are robots now produced that can dance. They produce these robots at Boston Mechanics that have been able to dance, and they've gone viral on YouTube. I only know this because I have a five-year-old son who's obsessed with robots. So we've seen the dancing robots so many times.

But just because a robot can dance, does that mean that humans are going to stop dancing? Absolutely not. I mean, I think we cannot help but dance. We cannot help but express ourselves through art forms. And it's like I look at my 14 month old, Eloise, and it's like when we turn on the music, she's swaying her little diaper wrapped hips to the music. And it's like,

And her, you know, her awkward little dancing, having just learned to walk a couple, like a few months ago, means more to me seeing that than seeing some, you know, robot dance on a screen. And so it's, because I think what is reflected there, ultimately, if we get down to the depths of this theological argument, what is being reflected there is the Imago Dei, the image of God being represented.

there through the creativity of my daughter, even at that very young age. And so I think it would be a rather sad thing for us to tell this next generation, no, don't worry about creating arts. Don't worry about writing the next symphony. We already have that covered. We've got robots to do it. Go occupy yourself with something else. That to me is a very sad future.

Jake Weidmann (22:13.014)
And right now, I mean, I don't, I just see that there's going to be a greater drive and desire for things that are made by hand, by humans. And so, I better get off of that soapbox before I abscond and crush it. But that is, you know, what I'm seeing anyways,

Soren Schwab (CLT) (22:32.054)
No. Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Jake Weidmann (22:39.47)
through technology is that there's a lot of unbelievable artists that are being, that are rising up right now, doing a lot of these, these ancient forms of art that are being restored and brought back to a place of prominence.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (22:54.614)
Yeah, we want to be hopeful, right? And I think you're absolutely right. It seems like the pendulum is also swinging back, and that a lot of the things that maybe technology could do or that we're kind of taking ownership back again and creating. And so, yeah, I was thinking when you talked about the.

like what it does to the individual, right, as you're going through the motions or going through the process. I mean, at CLT, we do believe that education is fundamentally about formation, that it's not just about the end outcome, that it's forming you. Learning Latin is as much about what it does to you as a human being than, you know, being able to read Cicero, which is great. And so and maybe that's part of it, right? That it's that it's not just yes, I can give.

Jake Weidmann (23:32.819)

Jake Weidmann (23:40.525)

Jake Weidmann (23:44.639)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (23:51.414)
the internet of prompt and I get this beautiful piece of art, but I've skipped all the creative process, right? That maybe makes me more attentive, maybe makes me more patient, maybe makes me more focused on detail and movement and motion. And if we're just sidestepping that and not focusing on that, I'm wondering what's gonna be lost. Let me ask you about,

Jake Weidmann (23:59.851)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (24:21.998)
Since we talk about culture and what culture values, I mean, so much is focused on what's new, what's quick, what's expedient. How do you make the case that, and I think you mentioned that in one of your talks, that art is made to last and that it's made to serve. How can we preserve art and tradition in this kind of instant gratification culture? How is that possible?

Jake Weidmann (24:31.416)

Jake Weidmann (24:40.813)

Jake Weidmann (24:48.978)
Um, you know, I think it's, I think it's preserved by, uh, by using it. You know, I think it's, uh, um, I mean, I speak about that in the, in this, uh, in the context of legacy, you know, that legacy is not something that you simply put on the shelf, um, to be admired from a distance, but never used. No, you know, legacy is essentially like a very well honed tool.

that is meant to be put to work and it's re-honed and it's re-sharpened through every passing generation to be more useful for whoever takes it up next. And so I think the greatest preservation of the arts in these disciplines happen when we're actually using them. It's really the only way that they are preserved.

that it happens through human flourishing. So I think that is something that we have to make a very conscious decision of, and we have to make a good argument for, because I think that there's a lot of arguments right now, especially in our technological age, that we're trying to raise up our technology in a way so that we don't have to do the work anymore.

And we view this work as, you know, that it is the curse. And, but that's really, that's really wrong. I mean, I think generally from a, from a general, like worldly perspective, but from a biblical perspective, you know, work, you know, work was not the result of the fall, it was, it was only the work became harder as, as a result of the fall. But

Adam and Eve were given jobs before they fell. And so that is part of the blessing. That is part of the blessing that we have as children of God to actually be able to co-create with Him. And so to surrender that, to give that up, is to actually reject part of the blessing of what it means to be human and what it means to be made in the image of God. So preserving that is living more fully into it. And...

Jake Weidmann (27:12.078)
And that is going forward means embodying what it is to be a really whole person, and to develop ourselves in that way, to love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart, soul, and strength. So it incorporates the whole person in that. And it's not just this disembodied thing that we're ultimately going after today. I think...

embodiment moving forward will be a very powerful and potent thing into our technological future.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (27:50.902)
Wow, Amen, that is powerful. Yeah, no, I think that's... I was gonna ask you and I think you've answered it with that because I listened to your TED talk and you talked about that we should steward art well, while it is in our hands, right? And being good stewards of art and thereby preserving art and passing it on to the next generation. And I mean, it sounds like that's what you're talking about, right? Utilizing this art, using it for the right purposes.

Jake Weidmann (28:04.626)
I mean...

Soren Schwab (CLT) (28:20.914)
and I guess highlighting its value. I mean, even I guess students in some Christian schools and some classical schools, they're still asking these questions, right? But what's the point? What's the point? Why do I have to do this? Why is this important? Right? And I think we have to have some good answers because after they leave school and they go on TikTok and they...

Jake Weidmann (28:37.079)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (28:45.762)
They're being told other things, right? And if we're just saying, well, because we say so, or because it's, you know, because it... I don't know what reasons we're giving, but... So I guess, you know, the conversation that you're gonna have with your children about the importance of art, the importance of calligraphy, the importance of creating beauty. What are some of the things you focus on when you have these or when you will have? I guess one is...

Jake Weidmann (28:47.764)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (29:14.626)
a little bit too young to have that conversation. But what are some of the things you focus on? Because I'm sure some of our teachers listening can get inspired by that.

Jake Weidmann (29:15.719)

Jake Weidmann (29:24.202)
Mm. Like when I'm actually talking to kids and trying to, um, wow. Well, I mean, gosh, I, I find, uh, and like, like you said, you know, it's like, um, my kids are really young right now. Um, but I, all it really takes at this point is, um, is encouragement for, for my kids. Cause they're, you see that they're naturally hungry.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (29:27.106)

Jake Weidmann (29:53.622)
You know, you see at this age that they're just, they're hungry for life, they're hungry to experience things, they're hungry to learn, and they're always longing to create. So at this point, you know, it's really about encouraging that and kind of fanning to flame that initial spark. Now to older kids who may be a bit jaded.

Jake Weidmann (30:25.255)
who may have stepped into the world of social media and technology and found there this sort of sugary sweetness that is always dripping from the vine, say that's all good, but there's a lacking of substance there.

And it's like it's very, that will pass away very quickly. You know, it is vanity itself. It is chasing after the wind. And so, you know, it's like actually doing something that has profound meaning of actually developing yourself. It's like those are the things that are going to create in you a deeper sense of satisfaction and joy rather than just this momentary happiness. But in...

you know, sorrow is the pledge of joy, as George MacDonald put it, you know, that there are some things that are difficult to do. There are some things that we may not like in the moment, but it's like once, but it's coming through those things and even learning to appreciate those things for the joy that is ultimately set before us, like that is the ultimate reward.

And sometimes it means walking them through that. I think it means telling them about your own experience and leveling with them in a very personal way, but encouraging them towards that all the while. I think it's, this generation has a lot to show us yet. And we can't, I think one thing that it's important for us to do as...

you know, people further along in life is to not discredit them before they even get going.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (32:16.894)
Yeah, wow, what a beautiful, beautiful way to end. Jake, this was, yeah, it gives me a lot to think about. But we of course have one more question, as we always do in the Anchored Podcast, the most difficult question of all, what is the one book or one text that you can think of that maybe has had the most profound impact on your own life, personal or professional?

Jake Weidmann (32:44.386)
Ah, oh my gosh, well, I mean, by default, of course, I'm going to say the Bible, because that is like the anchor to my faith. And I know like even trying to pick out a single book within would be hard, but outside of that, outside of that Sunday school answer, I would say, you know,

Gosh, that is actually hard. I would say one of the most profound books for me has been Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton. He has such a beautiful way of expressing the world in all of its deep meanings and our relationship to God and God's relationship to us.

There's some like really beautiful nuggets in that. And then especially for creatives, he unpacks ideas. Like he talks about the fairy tale writer and why we love the fairy tale writer because they, you know, they're not, their responsibility is not so much about making new worlds but making this world new. Like the fairy tale writer tells us that the apple is gold.

to remind us of our initial astonishment when we first discovered that it was green or that the rivers ran with wine to remind us of our initial astonishment when we first discovered that they ran with water. So he has this unbelievable way of unpacking theology in a poetic way. And so that's probably been one of the most impactful books to me in my life.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (34:30.466)
Wow, our founder and CEO, Jeremy Tate, is gonna be really, really happy with that answer. That's his go-to once a year at least, but it is fantastic. And Chesterton's sense of humor and yeah, his writing is absolutely incredible. I can even admit that as a Protestant, right? Well, let me do one quick add on, and I didn't prep you for that at all, but since we always wanna inspire our listeners,

Jake Weidmann (34:38.89)

Jake Weidmann (34:42.766)
Oh absolutely, he is brilliant.

Jake Weidmann (34:49.826)
Thank you.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (34:59.27)
If we should look at one piece of art, maybe, whether it's your favorite piece of art or maybe just something that you've recently saw or rediscovered or just kind of one of your favorite pieces of art, what would you point us to?

Jake Weidmann (35:12.91)
Uh, wow. One of my favorite pieces of art, like from another artist. Oh my gosh. Uh, Oh, that one's, uh, like no sooner choose a favorite star in the heavens. I think is how that phrase goes. Um, you know, uh, some of my, like one of my favorite pieces, of course, everybody knows Michelangelo's, uh, the David. Um, but.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (35:17.676)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (35:24.042)
Even harder than the book one, huh? Ha ha ha.

Jake Weidmann (35:43.538)
The Pia Tà is that one, I actually got to go to Italy on my honeymoon with my wife. And I remember standing in front of that piece and just, and absolutely crying because you just, you know, Mary is in perfect proportion to herself. Jesus is in perfect proportion to himself, but Mary is made larger. Jesus is made smaller because he is one who stoops to conquer.

He was made feeble in his death. And so it's like, you just, you know, you look at that piece and it's just, it's so incredible. And to think like he was, he was just a young artist. I mean, he was like 23 or 24 when he completed that piece. But to have all of that, you know, conviction in everything crystallized in stone, that's a pretty amazing piece. So yeah, well, we'll go with that one.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (36:38.862)
Easy. Well, that's a good one to go with. Thank you so much for sharing. Again, we're here with Jake Whiteman, who is one of only nine master penmen in the world. Jake, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your passion for art with our audience. And thank you so much for all you do. We appreciate you.

Jake Weidmann (36:58.575)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Soren.