Replicating Successful, Mission-Focused Pedagogy | Daniel Baillargeon

On this episode of Anchored, Jeremy is joined by Daniel Baillargeon, founder and CEO of Mission Driven Catholic, a Catholic school resource that ​​provides leaders with the resources, spiritual support, and tools necessary to make mission-driven decisions. The two talk about Daniel’s journey into Catholic education through his time as a teacher, superintendent, and consultant. They also highlight examples of Catholic schools that have fully lived out their mission and the replicable pedagogy that helped them do it. 

Today’s episode of Anchored is brought to you with support from America’s Christian Credit Union. Find out how ACCU can be the banking partner to your school or family by visiting americaschristiancu.com/CLT.

Transcript

Jeremy (00:01.782)
Welcome back to the Anchor Podcast. Folks, we have a very exciting guest today, one of my dear friends, the one and only Dr. Dan Bellargin. Dr. Bellargin is a Catholic educator with over 20 years of experience who has committed himself to researching and advancing Catholic education throughout the country. He has served as a Catholic education, as a teacher, as a principal, as a superintendent, as a national advocate. Having earned his PhD from Catholic University of America, he is now the president

and the founder of Mission Driven Catholic, an organization that provides executive mentoring, formation, strategic planning, retreats for schools, parishes, and first dioceses. Dan is also the president and founder of MDC Solutions, a consulting group that helps schools limit learning loss due to the pandemic and positively impact overall student success in flourishing school environment. Dan, Dr. Blargen, great to see you, great to have you on today.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (01:01.303)
Thanks a lot of words in that intro. A lot happening there.

Jeremy (01:06.167)
Dan, we've known each other since probably 2017 or so, and from the first time I met you, you're just full of enthusiasm, full of passion, somehow perpetually optimistic in kind of a dark time for Catholic education. You're just like the definition of kind of a cheerful warrior who is fighting for the recovery of all the right things in Catholic education. So thrilled to have you on.

Let's start at the beginning if we could. I'm curious, I've never asked you this, but how did you kind of develop this passion for Catholic education? Did you grow up in a faithfully, passionately Catholic home?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (01:45.203)
Yeah, no, not at all. Not a faithfully, not a faithfully authentically Catholic home at all. I mean, I was born and raised Catholic. I was, you know, Northeast cultural Catholic, right? So I'll receive it on. Yeah, yeah, you know the story. And so, you know, my folks made sure that I went to weekly mass when I was growing up, we went to CCD. So all of my faith formation was in religious ed programs.

Jeremy (01:47.154)
Oh

Jeremy (01:58.054)
Oh, okay. I know the kind.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (02:13.987)
And received my confirmation, went to the University of Connecticut to first study biochemical engineering, but then shifted into education and then specifically music education. And it was during my time at the University of Connecticut through the witness of, you know, really good people in my life. I just I have a cousin who was just praying for me all the time and was just on me just about the faith.

And through her example and a bunch of different things were going on at the university, I just, I had this really major reversion experience where, um, I took account of everything that was happening in my life. Uh, I remember one mantra my dad used to give me, not specifically Catholic mantra, but he said, you know, you have to do everything a hundred percent or not do it at all. And there was like one of this, this kind of critical juncture in my life. I was a sophomore in college and I basically laid everything out, took an inventory of my life and asked the question, am I doing this a hundred percent?

And do I want to do this? If I'm going to do this? Am I going to do it 100% or not? So I started with my studies, I started with sports, you know, I kind of went down everything. And then I got to for whatever reason, the Holy Spirit inspired moment, my faith. And I said, I don't even know what that means. I don't know what 100% in means at all. And that was the crack in the door that the Holy Spirit needed. And he just kind of like just flooded the space. And I reached out to my cousin, we started praying together, I started going to a youth group. And it was that a

Jeremy (03:25.718)
Well.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (03:38.795)
Franciscan University of Steubenville Conference that I went to, I was a little older than probably I should have been because I was in college, but I went there and the real presence was coming around Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. And he just completely knocked me off my feet. And I said, that's that's, that's God, that is Christ, that is who that is. How in the world did I not know that? How how in the world was I Catholic my whole life and not know that Jesus Christ is true, the president of Blessed Sacrament? Like how does that happen?

So I called my Catholic school friends, you know, that were in there said, Oh, this is great. You know, Jesus is there. And they're like, What are you talking about? And it was kind of at that moment that I made the decision. I don't want anybody else to not know Christ radical love for them in the Eucharist and in the church. And I committed myself at that point to Catholic education. And I said everything I'm going to do I'm going to do specifically to try to advance Catholic education and belief in and who is there.

at the very heart of it.

Jeremy (04:38.578)
Wow, very, very powerful. I've got a joke I play on Catholic youth ministry people. I say, oh, how was your time at Franciscan? And they always say, how did you know I went to Franciscan? And it turns out to be true most of the time because they're doing, we love our friends at Franciscan University, where again, they actually had a record, record enrollment this year. So you had this moment, I mean, you could have gone on to be a passionately Catholic architect or anything else.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (04:40.035)
Yeah.

Jeremy (05:07.134)
But you wanted this specifically informed your convictions about education. And so you went into the classroom. How long did you teach?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (05:17.735)
Um, well, first I went into the missions. Um, so I worked in the missions. Um, I discerned a religious vocation and I was a teacher there, um, in central America with the society of our lady of the Trinity, a really great order out of Robstown, Texas. Um, they're beautiful. And, um, it was there that I really, I understood the beauty of education. Now I was already an education major. So when I was at the university of Connecticut, I was

Jeremy (05:29.81)
Oh, wow. Okay.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (05:42.247)
influenced to be a teacher by my band director when I was in high school. So I was already thinking what can happen, how can education transform a person because it had a transformative effect on me. And I knew that this was really, this was the particular place where I could, through the grace of God, do the most good in the formation of young minds and helping them to understand from the very earliest age what is true, good and beautiful.

Jeremy (05:50.466)
Yeah.

Jeremy (06:03.31)
Mm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (06:07.627)
And I didn't know that terminology yet because I was in public school. And so even after my conversion, I really had to learn more and I had to really enter into the church documents and I had to research and I had to spend time to try to understand what is happening in Catholic schools. Because I thought they were great and they just needed a little bit but the more I spent time in there is like, wow, there really needs to be a wholesale revitalization of what's happening here.

Jeremy (06:11.075)
You're a

Jeremy (06:31.734)
So this was a Catholic school in South America where you were a missionary and a teacher?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (06:36.927)
Yeah, it was a Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Benque Viejo del Carmen, which was on the border of Belize in Guatemala.

Jeremy (06:45.19)
Okay, okay. Well, what a way to get an introduction to Catholic education and being in that in that context. And were there some things you took out of your experience in South America once you came back to the States?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (06:56.543)
Yeah, and it was it was Central America, right? So we're in the middle there. But um, yeah, a couple things, right? One thing, well, I mean, it completely radically changed my understanding of the institutional church, right? Because we would go on missions in Guatemala, with these, you know, families, they had one, like one house, like one room houses, and 12 kids and nothing, right? Like no material possessions or things like that. And they were the happiest children I've ever seen in my life. And I was like, I'm

Jeremy (07:21.034)
Well, well.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (07:22.855)
I'm missing something. So I learned a lot about culture. I learned a lot about joy. I learned a lot about like the presence of God in that, but specifically in the school, the, the principal there is a name was Tim Robinson. He brought his whole family. They were missionaries for salt. And he had this really enthusiastic, but very, very profound faith. And I remember at the end of every mass, Dr. Uh, Tim Robinson would walk up the middle of the aisle.

and he would kneel right in front of the Blessed Sacrament and he would pray the Anima Christi. And every single one of the students in the entire school knelt down, all the teachers knelt down, everybody knelt down, because we all knew that he believed every word that he was saying as he was talking to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, in the Tabernacle after Mass. And it really, it solidified what the church has taught about witness.

He was a witness to a profound relationship with Christ. And he did not need to, he did not need to demand respect, his very presence and his and his relationship to Christ commanded the respect of those that were there around him. And, and, yeah, I think that was that had a huge effect on me, because I knew I was a smart enough person to know I was not gonna be able to teach in Catholic schools my whole life, because I was gonna I wanted a family and, you know, I wanted to, you know, do these things.

I knew I'd have to go into administration. And I saw in a leader in a school, somebody with a really profound impact. And that really kind of set my course from teaching into administration, into kind of where I am right now.

Jeremy (08:59.05)
Okay, okay. And then tell us about your experience as a Catholic superintendent. I mean, you were in a situation that to really understand the needs of Catholic education. I mean, you were there in Springfield for a number of years and then of course you are now on your own with Mission Driven Catholic. But what did you take away from your time as a superintendent?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (09:22.487)
Um, yeah, it's a really challenging position. I have great respect for Catholic school superintendents. It's very, very challenging the work they do. And my hope when I went there is I really wanted to be in some way, a transformational leader, I really wanted to help the schools to embrace what is true, good and beautiful about Catholic education, I really wanted to get into, you know, what are we teaching? And who are we teaching? And who are we presenting? And so a lot of the work I did, there was good work I did.

Jeremy (09:44.447)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (09:51.619)
teacher development, I did principal development. You know, I made longstanding friendships with the folks that were there. What I found to be really challenging, because that was a small office, by the end it was just myself and a secretary. And the needs of a diocesan system are so broad that one person with, you know, with little help really cannot be a transformational leader. They, you know, they maybe could do some work and they could do some management and they can kind of move things along, but...

I have a desire and a thirst for souls. I want to win souls for Christ. And the bureaucracy of it was really challenging sometimes like that, you know, what seemingly should be really simple mission level decisions were not, were very difficult to push forward. And that was challenging for me. Something that I was hoping that I could really impact as a superintendent. And I realized that I had much more of an impact on the lives of families and students as a principal.

than I did as a superintendent. And then COVID came. So, you know, we really did our best to keep the schools open. We did our best to give parents choice over masking and some of these things that were kind of really hot button issues at the time. And it made it hard for me to function effectively with the presbyterate and the priest there because we did not agree on what was necessary for families during that time.

Jeremy (11:19.374)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (11:22.383)
And so I think at the end of the day, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about the support that is needed for superintendents and how the institutional church functions, but I also learned that we need to really rethink the position of superintendent and even, you know, kind of some of the bureaucratic nature of how we're making decisions in leadership because we live in apostolic times, we live in mission times and yet the bureaucracy many times makes it difficult for us to

to reach and touch souls. And that really should be our primary work.

Jeremy (11:55.266)
Well, I got to tell you, Dan, and by the way, it was really great having you out at the Higher Ed Summit. You've been a great member of our academic board for a number of years. And I think about this game we played growing up called Back to Bacon, and the idea of Back to Bacon was like, you could name any movie, and then you'd think of like, casts that were in that, that were also in that with somebody else, and you'd give back to Kevin Bacon. And I feel like I can't.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (12:16.011)
Yeah, seven degrees of seven degrees of Kevin Bacon. Yeah.

Jeremy (12:18.846)
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. I can't find anyone in the Catholic world who like doesn't know you or know of you, you know? And it always comes to like, oh, you know, Dan Bellargin? Like, yeah, I know Dan Bellargin. Like, of course I know, who doesn't know Dan Bellargin? You know, so your passion, enthusiasm, conviction is really making, and I'm just excited about what you're doing now, because I think people need to be hearing what you're saying and what you've seen and what the solutions are. So how did this develop kind of this idea for mission-driven Catholics?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (12:48.991)
Well, you know, I've been thinking about that a lot as the company has been growing. And we've we've, you know, received more inquiries for the work that we're doing. But all of the things that I wanted to do, right, that I was really passionate about when I became a superintendent. I'm doing with mission, with mission driven Catholic on a national level, right. And so I'm a huge believer in leadership formation, the leaders of our schools are such

Jeremy (13:16.34)
Yeah.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (13:17.431)
They're so important with reclaiming what is authentic about a Catholic education. And they don't know, they don't know the things that they don't know. They don't even know what to ask a lot of times. And so leadership formation, intentional discipleship for leaders, um, faith formation, but also just kind of good formation for them is, has really been my passion. That's what I wrote my dissertation on. Really it's on the profound impact a leader can have on an institution. And I really, I believe that, um,

Jeremy (13:45.378)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (13:47.091)
especially when those leaders completely buy into what the mission is, right? And so I get to do what I wanted to do at the Diocesan level on a national level with folks who want to work with me with people who really are thirsty for revitalization. They really want to be at the head of this movement of the revitalization of Catholic schools. And they reach out to me and I get to work with the principals of these dioceses, I get to work with these school boards, I get to work with the teachers, and I get to really tell a story.

Jeremy (14:03.246)
Sure.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (14:16.023)
and invite them into being characters in this story of what it is and what the Lord is doing for the work here. So that was been my passion. And as a person who's been a teacher and a principal and a superintendent, I've also become kind of a jack of all trades, right? Because I was, as I said before, I was a superintendent by myself in an office for a long period of time. And so some of these schools also are like really mission aligned. Like you have like really great witness leaders there.

Jeremy (14:42.894)
Mm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (14:44.643)
excuse me, but they need some help with budget preparation. They need some help with, okay, how do I take these decisions and take this big vision about what a Catholic school is and actually make decisions based on it. And I have experience in that world as well. And so I really feel like I get to help this kind of really broad group like those who aren't mission aligned, but want to be I can give them everything that they need to be to mission aligned. And those who are mission aligned, but don't know how to

move their institution in a way to be more mission aligned, well, I can move into that space as well. And so it's been really beautiful. And some of the stories already in just the business retreats, and some of the conversations I've had with these principles has been, it's just been, I can see God's hand in the work, right, I can see how he's been able to do really good things through it.

Jeremy (15:32.494)
Dan, probably half our audience today is not Catholic. We've a lot of great evangelical and Protestant friends listening right now. Within the Catholic school world, there are some debates and even some suspicions about the language of classical. And even some of the most, what I think are the flagship schools, places like the Heights, they don't like the language of classical.

Can you speak into that? What is the nervousness or apprehension about the language of classical education? And do you personally encourage your schools that you work with to use it? Some schools, like a place like Sacred Heart Academy, very much identifies as offering classical education. Can you help our listeners think through this?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (16:17.675)
Yeah, you know, I was at the higher ed summit, as you know, and I thought there was a really good exercise we did there. And that was talking about definitions of terms. And I really think the problem with classical is a definition problem. I just don't think people, I think it gets ascribed to all sorts of things that it really isn't. You know, I think that sometimes people hear classical and they think, you know, in the Catholic world, right? They think like radical traditional, right? Like almost like.

Jeremy (16:36.792)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (16:45.035)
you know, kind of this really like way out far, you know, reaching super insulated, nobody else can get anything out of it. And we're going to lock our doors down, right. And, and that's just not, that's not a good definition of the term, right. I see it as a really just a reclamation of the Catholic intellectual tradition is really what it is, you know, and because classical in and of itself, is very liberal.

Jeremy (16:53.419)
Hmm.

Jeremy (17:05.878)
Hmm. Love that. Okay.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (17:13.107)
And again, if you use the word liberal, people are like, why do you want to be liberal? Nobody wants to be a liberal, right? Like, okay, so whatever. So one of the problems we have is because we don't have a good, we don't have good formation, then we have, as a result, we have bad definitions, right? And so because, and it's like, it's kind of like feeds, one feeds the other, right? Because we haven't really gone into logic. We haven't really in our schools.

Jeremy (17:15.862)
Yeah.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (17:39.959)
gone into this world that a classical education really helps to free the mind. We're dealing with folks who have been formed in misunderstandings and misconceptions of what these things are. And they don't have the logical capacity to be able to do anything about it. And so I think that there's a real need for those classical schools and those who believe a classical education or believe that the Catholic intellectual tradition needs to be reclaimed or believe in a, you know, as I see it, right? The

Jeremy (17:49.059)
Hmm, so well said.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (18:07.647)
the Institute for Catholic Liberal Education that I think there needs to be some, some real intentionality in the space about defining those terms. And I think that by doing so, I think people will understand that it is not what they what they think it should be. But you're right, there's a very, there's very much a close mindedness to it. I think that, you know, you asked me my particular views on it. Yeah, I work with schools. And when I'm working with a school, if they're gonna be mission aligned.

I'm gonna ask them questions regarding their curriculum and whether their curriculum specifically, right? And we're not even getting into pedagogy, but just their curriculum. Is your curriculum aligned to the things that are going to help them to be in authentic relationship with Christ? Or have we just taken a public education mindset and have we just, have we taken everything that they give us including the resources and just added a religion class? Because if that's what we did, we're not really Catholic schools. In order to be a Catholic school,

Jeremy (18:45.975)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (19:06.283)
Catholicism should be immersed into everything. And for those who aren't in Catholic education, right? Say you have somebody who's, you know, who are more evangelical, right? It's the same thing, right? You must then, if you're evangelical Christian and you're out in the way you see things, you must immerse that level of Christian thinking into everything you do or you'll come up short. And so this is really how like mission-driven leadership, you know, which I push.

I just use it because I work so much with Catholic schools. I'm thinking about, okay, what is the mission of Catholic education as given to us? And how do we then make sure every decision we make is aligned with this? And that is something that you can do as a Jewish school. That's something that you can do as an evangelical school. You have to ask the question, what is our nature? What's our mission and how are we doing that? And a classical education helps to free us to be able to even look at that question properly and then answer it properly.

Jeremy (19:51.43)
Yeah.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (20:04.031)
And it doesn't all look the same. And that's another thing about classical.

Jeremy (20:06.11)
Yeah. Dan, as I hear you speak, I'm thinking about some parallels maybe on the Protestant side with our Protestant brothers, groups like the Society for Classical Learning or Association for Classical Christian Schools. And the work they're doing and the fact that in many ways it's not enough to have great leadership training, but that there needs to be concrete schools to take people to and to show them.

this is what it actually looks like, right? And I can think of a handful in my head, but I'm wondering if there are maybe five or six that you would point to that you feel like are doing it right in terms of living out their mission in every aspect of the life of the school. Are there some you can kind of give a shout out to?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (20:55.111)
I would say that John Paul down in Lafayette, Louisiana is a really, yeah, a really, really fascinating school. I know Ryan Verrett, who was the president of the board, very well, actually, I'm gonna see him this weekend. They're doing a Witness to Love Marriage retreat right outside of our diocese here, so.

Jeremy (21:00.87)
Kevin Roberts School. Yeah, love that.

Jeremy (21:16.387)
And they just started using CLT, which we love as well.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (21:19.699)
Yeah, really good school. And I'm going to use them, you know, as far as exemplary practice, think they're there a lot, but I'm going to use them and just kind of lean on them for a second rather than giving like five or six examples. Because everything they do, they reflect on their core mission. It's about engaging the families, it's about engaging the students, it's about providing the witness and it's about providing the access, right? So excellence is at the forefront. Catholic formation is at the forefront, but they don't

Jeremy (21:29.934)
Sure.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (21:48.759)
they do it exactly the way that it needs to be done, where they're engaging the families in the community, they're engaging the community as a school and they're engaging the minds and the hearts of the kids in their school as well. And so I really have great respect. I think that's a super replicable model and one that we should, you know, I would like as a researcher to spend more time really unpacking because there's real beauty to what's happening at that school. Now, obviously in the elementaries, you have some classical schools, as you know,

Jeremy (22:04.534)
Yeah.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (22:18.715)
know, St. Jerome's, and they've done such a good job and just trying to like be the that flagship, but haven't gotten trapped. And we must always do it the same way. They're still liberal, they're still free, they still, they still kind of move in that direction. And they asked the right questions about what this looks like. They have obviously the curriculum that holds it together. But if you walked into St. Jerome's today versus walking in St. Jerome six years ago,

Jeremy (22:22.867)
Mm. Sure.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (22:44.895)
it's not going to look exactly the same. It's not like it's a boxed program. It's something that really is open to the community as they're moving in and out of it. So I think that they've done they've done a good job there. And I have a lot of respect for the Chesterton academies, you know what they're trying to do in their work too, because the Chesterton academies are helpful for those, you know, you had said this to you can't just hand off, you know, say, okay, we're going to be classical and just say go, right? The Chesterton academies

Jeremy (22:49.058)
Hmm.

Jeremy (22:59.435)
Totally. Yeah.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (23:12.023)
have really spent a lot of time thinking about, okay, what is a good pedagogy? What are good resources? What is a good kind of course of studies in order for us to do this so that we can hand off to a school? If you do this, you can be assured that you're gonna be starting off on the right foot and doing that successfully. They don't just ask questions though about the curriculum. They ask questions about the financing. They make sure that all these other operational pieces are in place to do it as well. So I would say those three.

are good, they're replicable, and they're kind of helpful in the space.

Jeremy (23:46.078)
Awesome, awesome. Three great ones to choose. Dan, again, mission-driven Catholic, if folks are listening to this now and they're thinking, you know what, maybe my school's a little bit sleepy, maybe not very much focused or talking about mission at all, how can they reach out and connect with you?

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (24:04.639)
So we have a lot of different resources, but we have a website, missiondrivencatholic.com that has all of our resources on it. So that's just a simple place where you can find us there. We also have this really simple daily podcast that has been kind of the formation and foundation for all of this. I'm a firm believer that all things need to be supported by prayer. And so the Catholic Daily Drive is super simple. I mean, it's not...

It's not extraordinarily deep and is not supposed to be it's made for Catholic families and Catholic educators. Psalm of the day, gospel of the day, saying of the day, brief reflection. And, but what it is also, it's a growing community. Every, every group, every school, every diocese that I work with gets added into, um, into this, into this group. And we have benefactors who are not financing it, but are just praying for the schools that are in this revitalization movement. Um, but

Jeremy (24:43.694)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (25:01.595)
One thing I think is really important, and this is a mark of how Mission Driven Catholic does its work, we're very intentional, and we're very individual. And so we pray for a school by name and a diocese by name. And when I'm doing the podcast and I'm kind of recording them, there's no package deal. I have the Bible on my left, I have the Liturgy of the Hours on my right. I pray the podcast for those schools because I wanna be praying. So we build the entire thing on prayer. I think that's...

kind of first and foremost, the most important. If you just want to be a part, you can just listen to that, but reach out and we'll add you to our intentions. You'll have a group of really high powered prayers, like prayer warriors praying for your school. That's part of what needs to happen in revitalization. We can't forget that we have to draw on the grace of God to do this work. And then other than that, if you have questions about operational vitality, if you have questions about budgeting, if you have question about getting your teachers on board and passionate about Catholic education,

Jeremy (25:42.05)
Hmm.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (25:58.635)
We're happy to come in. We do one day sessions. I've done teacher convocations. I'm gonna be doing a convocation for the Archdiocese of Hartford next year, which I'm really excited about. But we also do just kind of personalized. I'm working with some schools on making sure that their strategic plan is mission aligned, right? So making sure the decisions are where they need to be. So I'm in those schools and I do visits. And then I like to also share the good news, right? Replicability is important. So.

You know, I like to write up as I as I find these great schools and just write up the great things that are happening in the space. So, you know, if you could find all that on our website, you can reach out to me, any superintendent in the country and in Catholic schools, I am a freak, I'm a free phone call, I'm not charging you as a superintendent for advice to get your folks where they need to be. And so maybe it's not the most monetarily efficient mechanism. But my belief is that

I'm here just to help and support schools that want to be more authentic, specifically, right? Mission driven Catholic in their Catholic identity. But also just more authentic in their identity as, as what they're supposed to be as educational institutions.

Jeremy (27:10.486)
Dan, love it. Final question, final question. The book, the book, Dan, that has been most formative for you, the question we try to always end the Anchor Podcast with.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (27:21.355)
I'll give you I'll give you the two first one just an applicable run right that the from Christendom to apostolic mission. Really love that book. Yeah, just really it and I didn't read this until later on it's right the revitalization work. He nailed it. We are in apostolic times. The other book I'll give you a literary book and it might be surprising. The literary book that really changed me was Dracula. Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Jeremy (27:28.522)
Here. Oh my gosh, Montenegro Chez, so good.

Jeremy (27:39.23)
Yeah, nailed it. Yep.

Jeremy (27:50.606)
I don't think anybody's ever said Dracula. That's amazing.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (27:50.807)
Um, yeah, no, I love Ramsoaker's Dracula. Um, and it was because, um, I was a product of public schools. And so I didn't really read. We only tested like we knew how to test. We didn't really know how to read. And so I started reading. I was down in central America and, uh, Jeff, I don't remember his last name, but Jeff recommended I read Dracula. And, um, I read it shortly after I got out of the missions when I was married to my wife and he said, it's a profoundly Catholic book.

He said, the embodiment of vices from Dracula and the embodiment of virtues from all the heroes in there. If you read it through that lens and you'll understand what Stoker was actually trying to do with this. And so I find it a fascinating book. I think the Eucharistic presence in it. And there's just so much in Bram Stoker that people don't realize, because it gets, you know, fantastic book and it opened literature for the, it's the first book that I read that I said, I can see more deeply what's happening in here.

Jeremy (28:36.33)
I had no idea.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (28:47.203)
than just what's written on these pages. And that really changed me. Now I'm more of a voracious reader, both in the literary sense as well as in kind of the mission sense.

Jeremy (28:49.387)
Mmm.

Jeremy (28:57.106)
Two amazing picks. And we did a podcast with Monsignor Shea, folks. Make sure to listen to that podcast. He's an amazing, amazing man at our partner college, the University of Mary in Bismarck, North Dakota. Again, we're here with Dr. Dan Balargent, the founder and CEO of Mission Driven Catholic. Dan, thanks so much for being with us and please come back in the future and give us updates.

Daniel R. Baillargeon, Ph.D. (29:20.302)
It's always good to see you, Jeremy.