Anchored by the Classic Learning Test

Thinking Classically and Theologically About the Social Sciences | Robert Woods

January 11, 2024 Classic Learning Test
Thinking Classically and Theologically About the Social Sciences | Robert Woods
Anchored by the Classic Learning Test
More Info
Anchored by the Classic Learning Test
Thinking Classically and Theologically About the Social Sciences | Robert Woods
Jan 11, 2024
Classic Learning Test

On this episode of Anchored, Soren is joined by Robert Woods, author, headmaster of Veritas Christian Academy, and a founder of the Great Books Honors program at Faulkner University. The two discuss the paideia approach to classical education that focuses on academic coaching and Socratic seminars over just lectures. Robert talks about the formation and design of the Great Books Honors program at Faulkner University. They also talk about his book, currently in the process of being published, “Neither Angel Nor Beast,” as a way to think classically and theologically about the social sciences.  

Show Notes Transcript

On this episode of Anchored, Soren is joined by Robert Woods, author, headmaster of Veritas Christian Academy, and a founder of the Great Books Honors program at Faulkner University. The two discuss the paideia approach to classical education that focuses on academic coaching and Socratic seminars over just lectures. Robert talks about the formation and design of the Great Books Honors program at Faulkner University. They also talk about his book, currently in the process of being published, “Neither Angel Nor Beast,” as a way to think classically and theologically about the social sciences.  

Soren Schwab (CLT) (00:01.002)
Welcome back to the Anchored Podcast, the official podcast of the Classic Learning Test. My name is Soren Schwab, Vice President of Partnerships here at CLT, and today we are joined by Dr. Robert Woods. Robert has been involved with classical Christian education for over 25 years. He currently serves as the headmaster of Veritas Christian Academy in Fletcher, North Carolina. He's also involved in post-secondary education through Faulkner University, where he serves as Professor of Great Books and Liberal Arts and plays a significant role.

in Faulkner's Great Books Honours program. Finally, he's in the middle of the publishing process for his upcoming book, Neither Angel Nor Beast. And we're gonna talk about that later on, Robert. Welcome to the show.

Robert (00:41.562)
All right, thank you. This is such a joy. I've been listening for, I think from the very beginning.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (00:47.838)
Oh my goodness, yeah, it's been a while now. It's been a while now. It's an absolute joy to have you join us. We're gonna talk about your role as headmaster and talk about Faulkner and the great books college. And of course we're gonna talk a lot about books and education. So we're thrilled, but as we always do, we start the Anchored podcast by talking about our guests own educational journey. So talk to us a little bit about where you grew up, what kind of schools you attended K-12.

Robert (00:50.467)
It has.

Robert (01:14.37)
Yeah, I was born in Rochester, New York, and spent the first part of my childhood in Rochester. We actually lived in Macedon and Palmyra area. And then my parents separated when I was very young, and so spent the other part of my childhood growing up in Richmond Hill, Georgia, Hardyville, South Carolina area. I graduated from Richmond Hill High School back in the day.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (01:42.786)
Wow, and that was public school.

Robert (01:44.366)
Public school, I've told people over the years that one of the things that I'm trying to do as an adult is to make up for all the education I did receive as a child. But I was blessed and fortunate to be a part of a couple different school districts that at the time were really sound and solid public schools.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (01:54.144)
I'm sorry.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (02:06.71)
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, we've interviewed so many kind of leaders in this classical movement. And I would say the minority of them actually received this kind of education. But it also seems like public school just used to be different. And so you were still exposed to primary sources in history and philosophy and literature and.

Robert (02:15.183)

Robert (02:20.354)
Right. Oh, yes. It used to be different.

Robert (02:30.574)
Well, when I went to my graduate program, I was at Berry University in Miami, Florida. And then I got my doctorate from Florida State University. It was a PhD in humanities. And that was a time when the professors were kind of the old school humanist. And so every course was primary sources and we would hear fine lectures. And then we would often be a part of some good discussions of the great books and the great conversation.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (03:01.134)
At that point, was it even referred to or were you aware of this classical renewal movement or was it just, well, this is just great books, liberal arts, education, or was there already some knowledge of classical education that you had?

Robert (03:17.626)
There was nothing explicit in the program. It was, as I said, kind of the old school humanists who believed in the primary text and the classics and masterpieces. And most of them referred to them in those revered terms. And so I was exposed to that. And there wasn't a lot of the contemporary critical theory that tends to dominate the reading of literature now.

And so again, I tell people I was very fortunate to have been educated under the good old school humanist.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (03:53.263)
Yeah, fantastic. Well, as I mentioned in the introduction, you are now the headmaster of one of our dear, dear partner schools. We've worked with you all for many years now. I love your team, your staff, just incredible, both academically, obviously, but just as human beings. So kudos to you for leading such a wonderful school, Beritas Christian Academy in North Carolina.

Kind of looking through your website, it seems like there's a special care taken to highlight your approach to paideia education. We talk a lot about classical education and the trivium and the quadrivium. I think on the show, we haven't talked as much about paideia education. So I think it'll be very interesting for our audience to hear about what you mean by that and how it kind of looks in the classroom at Veritas.

Robert (04:43.702)
Yes, it's very much Mortimer Adler, Robert Hutchins kind of precursor to what is now done by the Great Books Foundation in Chicago and the National Paideia Center that's about 30 minutes from our school. And so we've taken full advantage of a partnership with the National Paideia Center in Asheville. Essentially, the Paideia approach to classical education is rooted in

Mortimer Adler's writings, his book Reforming Education, which was originally released in 1977. And so when some people think of Adler as being one of the grandfathers or Hutchins as being one of the grandfathers of the contemporary classical renewal, they are spot on. Both Adler and Hutchins writing in the 40s and past were already introducing this idea of the paideia approach

it stresses three columns or three modes of learning. It's the didactic, the academic or intellectual coaching, and then Socratic seminars. And so what they did was they flipped it though, that the didactic approach, lectures and textbooks became the least amount of emphasis. And the greater emphasis in terms of education, teaching and learning was then placed on

academic or intellectual coaching and seminars. And what's at the heart of it? It is engagement. It is engaging the minds, the hearts, the souls of students in the teaching learning process, much more than merely the didactic approach, the old sit and get approach. And we still lecture, we still have lectures, and lectures are an important way of teaching and learning.

but they are not the best way that embodied human beings learn. We've got to get their eyes, their ears, their mouths involved. We've got to hear what they're thinking. What's going on in those minds to be able to see and to hear if they truly are learning what we're trying to teach.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (06:57.538)
So if we were to walk into a classroom at Veritas, and maybe before then we were at some other classical schools, how would it be different? What would look or sound or feel different about your classroom?

Robert (07:13.898)
One of the key differences would be for most of our classes, most of the time, a higher level of student, staff, teacher, interaction, and engagement. A couple of years ago, we instituted the school-wide seminar and we've done a few of those. And there are fewer things more delightful and exciting as a headmaster than to walk into a kindergarten class.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (07:24.213)

Robert (07:42.39)
and to see a seminar being conducted on a painting based on Leo Tolstoy's, The Three Questions, a kindergarten class. And I can remember, I remember seeing it thinking, this far exceeds my wildest expectations of the Socratic approach to getting children to think, to see, what are you seeing? What are you noticing? How are you thinking through this? What might this mean?

getting children in our grammar school and our logic school, getting them to infer and to interpret. And then of course, with our rhetoric school students, we read the short story, Tolstoy's Three Questions, and we had them engaged in a Socratic conversation.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (08:30.318)
I find that really, really interesting. And I think in a way, it defies a little bit like the stereotyping of different modes of education. Because when I'm listening to you and I didn't know your background, I'm like, well, it sounds a little progressive. You're asking these young kids on what they're thinking. I guess it's like a student led explorative learning. But it's not. And so it's still very much teacher led. But the teacher... Yeah, I explained that a little bit.

Robert (08:49.296)
Right, right.

Robert (08:56.702)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I think one clarification might be something, the difference between what we see in James Taylor's book, Poetic Knowledge, or in David Hick's book, Norms and Nobility, where both of them speak about and write about this approach of engaging the student's mind by asking questions and by getting them to verbally articulate what they're thinking.

So, and I've thought about this before, I love the way you said it. I mean, if it's progressive, then both Jesus and the gospels and Socrates and the dialogue, they were progressive too, because they asked questions to engage their listeners. And then to be able to gauge how their listeners were processing what they were teaching.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (09:35.17)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (09:49.77)
Robert, you know the headlines are going to come, right? Dr. Wood's called, progressive, you know, on the Anchored podcast. No, no, that's fascinating. Right. Absolutely. And by the way, Norm's nobility, one of my, one of my all time favorites, and I highly recommend that to any, any educator specifically classically here. Um, so you've been at Veritas for five years now and you've seen significant growth on the enrollment side, I guess, when it comes to.

Robert (09:56.994)
Alright. Just tongue your cheek. Tongue your cheek.

Robert (10:09.22)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (10:18.51)
to mission and vision for Veritas, how did you approach it and what have you kind of implemented over the years to really make sure that culturally, right? The whole staff's kind of on board.

Robert (10:29.974)
I am so fortunate to have a very supportive board and a very supportive administration and the faculty and staff that we currently have at Veritas, we're all essentially on the same page and we're heading in the same direction. Over the last six years, what we've seen is not only an increase in enrollment, but we've seen that beautiful atmosphere that

Renaissance Christian humanists described and saying, if you want to turn a city around, if you want to change a culture, you've got to get a spirit there, kind of attitude and disposition and demeanor. We all have to be on the same page. That doesn't mean we're always on the same word or we're always saying it the same way, but we do get what we're about. We've seen a increase in the influence of great educational reform thinkers such as

Mortimer Adler, I've seen a greater influence of Charlotte Mason. We have recently instituted, as many classical Christian schools are doing, we're seeing more and more of the common arts. We have a class from garden to table where our students are learning about agriculture and horticulture and they're learning culinary arts, how to prepare, because as embodied creatures, as incarnate beings, we aren't just ears.

to be talked to, our eyes to enjoy and to engage and to wonder and to notice the splendor of all that is around us. We're seeing a greater sense of full community understanding of what it means to be a Christ-centered classical school, what that means and how that's different from both public schools and from other Christian schools. And so that's the kind of thing we're noticing and we've been very

purposeful, intentional about art studies and nature studies, including and especially over the last few years with our younger children. And so you would walk down the halls of our buildings and you would see masterpieces of great art. And our children are frequently taken on tours of the Veritas Art Museum that we have throughout our entire school. And it's again, it's quite a joy to see these things.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (12:57.334)
It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful. You mentioned culture a couple of times and building culture and finding that community. I've spoken with some schools, especially through COVID, where there were certainly kind of the COVID bump in enrollment, right? And more families were interested, but some of them said so on. The difficulty has been identifying...

which of those families are just running away from something, which are running towards what we offer, right? Because you want those mission fit families. Have you dealt with that in a certain way? Is there certain things that may be in your application process for new families that you do to really make sure that everyone is on the same page on what you're doing at Veritas?

Robert (13:34.895)

Robert (13:45.782)
Yes, yeah, that's a great question. And we are certainly in that group that has had parallel experiences. Some people doing what they can to get away from what they discovered during the COVID and post-COVID moment when they were hearing what their children were being taught online. And so there are indeed parents who are running from that.

There are also the parents who are hearing more and more about classical education and classical Christian education and saying, we want to understand more. We have a very high percentage. Now, I would say we're looking at 15, 20% increasingly of families coming to us who either are coming from a classical Christian school or classical homeschooling, like a cohort they've been a part of.

We even have a few families that have moved to Fletcher, North Carolina, so their children could attend a classical Christian school. And we are very grateful for those people. So they come like-minded. And then we also have those, a good percentage of our people that are beautiful, malleable, docile people who say, we want to know, we want to understand. We've heard a little bit about this. Tell us more. And then we're able to share.

who we are, what we're doing. And we have in our admissions process, one of the, I think one of the most exciting things is we have a moment where we talk about expectations and we share with the families what our expectations are for our students and our families. And then we ask them, we invite them to say what their expectations are, because we know that it's a frustration occurs

when our expectations are not met or they're significantly altered. And so we wanna make certain at the very beginning, we know what we can expect of them and they know what they can expect of us.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (15:50.738)
Wow, I was just at a gathering of classical Christian schools and towards the end, everyone was asked, what are you excited about? And there are a variety of just beautiful, beautiful comments and testimonies. And I thought about just something very basic. Every day, there's hundreds and hundreds of families that are hearing about classical and classical Christian education for the same time. As much as the movement has grown,

It's still small, right? And there's so many families that have and you probably get that, right? Like we just heard about this for the first time. Tell me, tell me more. What is this thing?

Robert (16:19.151)

Robert (16:27.546)
We are actually in a building that is more than 100 years old. Part of our campus is the front part is more than 100 years old. We occasionally will have people stop by and say, I was a little tight here back in the day when this was a middle school. Can I walk the halls? And the answer is always yes. We welcome them in. But we have people say, I had no idea that there was a classical Christian school right here. And we are, we say, yes, we've been here for

A number of years we've been, we're celebrating our 25th year as a classical Christian school in Western North Carolina and it's getting better and better.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (17:06.594)
Wonderful, let's switch gears a little bit. As I mentioned, the introduction, you were also heavily involved in the Great Books Honors Program at one of our wonderful partners, Faulkner University in Alabama. Talk to us a little bit about Faulkner, but in particular about the Great Books Honors College, Program, not College, Honors Program and how you got involved with Faulkner.

Robert (17:34.63)
Sure, I moved to Faulkner in 1999. Faulkner University is a Christian liberal arts university. Moved there in 1999 to teach within their general studies, general education program. And Dr. Rampersot and I love recounting this story to different folks, but short story is after my first year, I was very discouraged because I was seeing some of the best and brightest students that had come to Faulkner.

who were saying they weren't being challenged. And so I went to Dr. Rampersad, who at that moment was sharing, he was right next to my office. We shared the same hall. And I said, Dr. Rampersad, he was the acting, at that moment he was the acting dean of the College of Arts and Sciences. And I said, I would love to start an honors program here at Faulkner University. And I would love for it to be great books based. And I just wanna see that happen because I don't wanna keep losing students.

And he said, okay, make it so. And so it was then this guy was the limit. I mean, the budget wasn't, I got a very modest budget to start with, but we started and we grew from a dozen students within the first year to I think at one point, they had more than 120 students in the Great Books Honors Program. And Dr. Andrew Jacobs, who I heard you all, you interviewed him not too long ago.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (18:36.174)

Robert (19:00.394)
It was actually in the Great Books Honors Program. He was one of the first students and Adam Rowe. I don't normally do a name dropping here, but these are two of the finest young men I've ever known. Adam Rowe was also at the very beginning of the Great Books Honors Program and he works for CLT. I was thrilled when I saw that he went to work for y'all.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (19:22.438)
Well, yeah, we've known about Faulkner for a while, but I had never met graduates from Faulkner. And I think it is a testimony to the kind of work that you're doing at Faulkner and the program that you have created to have someone like Adam go through the program and speak so highly about you, about the program. So full circle. And he was one of your first...

first students and that's absolutely incredible. And he doesn't like attention, so I'm sure he's gonna get a little embarrassed here by the name drop and I'm here for it, sir. I'm here for it. And so I mentioned you serve as a professor at the program still. So what kind of classes do you still teach and what kind of books do you assign?

Robert (19:50.618)
He was, yes.

Robert (20:13.114)
Well, several years before I left, we launched a MA and PhD program. I was able to be an integral part of that and it was a joy to see that take off and grow. So I teach two courses, primarily within the MA PhD Humanities program. And certainly my favorite is the Introduction to Humane Letters and Learning. And I get to interact with students who are

are thinking classically and thinking christianly about liberal arts education or humanities education and where it came from and how it came to be what it is in the modern world. We read everything from some primary sources to two favorites that students over the years have said they had either just known of the author and never really read him before, but

Robert (21:10.338)
And then his other, not as well-known book, but his other book on, In Tune with the World, A Theory of Festivity. And so reading those two books gets at the essence of humane learning and humane thinking. And it really is a joy to lead graduate students through those works.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (21:32.658)
So obviously you work with graduate students now, but you're still very familiar with the undergraduate program. What would you say is kind of the typical student that Faulkner attracts, especially for the Great Books program? Is there one? Are they all just gung-ho about the Great Books and want to pursue that? Or are they maybe interested in other fields, but they still want that Great Books education?

Robert (21:55.738)
Well, the Great Books program, the way it was designed was that the five core courses in the program substitute and replace five core courses within the general education curriculum. So all of the students, when I was there, and I think this is still the case in the undergraduate program, they're all students with all kinds of majors and they're all the way from physical therapy to...

to Bible majors, to business. And these students, they run the gamut, but they take those five core courses where the students are exposed to authors all the way from Homer to modern authors, devotional literature, where they read Thomas Aquempus or Dietrich Bonhoeffer. So it's a wide range of great books, primary sources.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (22:51.554)
The graduate program that you talked about, is that residential or is there an ability to do it remotely or maybe hybrid?

Robert (22:58.906)
That is fully online. I know there are some occasional courses where students will travel to Michigan or they may travel, Macosta, Michigan, Russell Kirk's home, Stomping Grounds, or they travel overseas. I think there's a planned trip for England, but it's none of that's required. The students, it's a fully online. We do like what you and I are doing right now. We get online every other Monday, live class session, hour and a half.

Students have done their readings and then we have our discussions.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (23:31.458)
Wow, that's fantastic. Are some of these students that you're now teaching, do you feel like some of them will kind of become, Robert Woods will go back into classical education and be teachers and headmasters. Do you feel like there's a desire to kind of be part of this beautiful classical movement?

Robert (23:50.498)
Yeah, I would say the majority are already involved in either public education at a community college or they are involved in classical Christian education as either a teacher or administrator. So we already have a high level of those numbers.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (24:08.694)
Wow, that is fantastic. And I'm sure you sometimes struggle with that, I'm sure with the hiring, the hiring of mission fit teachers and finding administrators that understand classical education and just to meet the demand of this growing movement. And so I'm so glad that there are more and more programs that are offered in this vein that prepare. Yeah, yeah... And so now for our listeners, add Fawken to that list.

Robert (24:31.446)
Oh, absolutely, yes.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (24:38.882)
One of the questions I get a lot when I'm traveling the country and visit with schools is, where should I recruit students from? What colleges should I go to? And maybe 15, 20 years ago, it was still, what education program should I go to? And really now it's mostly, no, what college should I go to? Because they're forming these human beings and maybe being part of an education program is not necessarily going in their favor, right? It's more, do they understand the books and the history and the philosophy?

Robert (24:47.566)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (25:09.337)
and are willing to teach or lead.

Robert (25:12.002)
Absolutely. And if a person has the credentials in a particular field that we're looking for and they are open to, and they're receptive to receiving more training within classical Christian education, you referenced Chris Perrin earlier. I mean, we have a number of our staff that are currently working through classical you of classical academic press.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (25:37.066)

Robert (25:39.282)
And we have students who've done some things with Searcy Institute. We've had students who've done some online work with University of Dallas. And so there's all kinds of opportunities and resources out there now to learn more about classical Christian education while you're a practitioner of it.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (25:58.534)
Wow, yeah, it's a beautiful ecosystem that has been built over the years. I mean, you're one of the early ones, sir. I mean, you didn't have all the resources yet at this point, right? When you were going through it. Well, I want to ask you, give us a little teaser. I mentioned in the bio that you finished writing a book and you're in kind of the publishing phases. It's called Neither Angel Nor Beast.

Robert (26:01.079)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (26:26.166)
When is it going to release? And just give us a little summary of the book.

Robert (26:30.722)
Well, it's going to be published by Roman Rhodes Press, and they are, Roman Rhodes Publishing is doing some really unique stuff. Probably about two years ago, I was in conversation with Scott Postma and with Daniel Fukushan, and we were talking, and I kind of pitched the idea of something. I had this idea for years about a volume that would be an example of kind of thinking Christianly and classically about

the social sciences. And I've already had a couple of people say, I thought your doctorate was in humanities. It's like, well, yes, but I have confessed to people over the years that if I had not gotten the PhD in humanities, I probably would have pursued a PhD in sociology. I've always been fascinated from undergraduate with the social sciences. And so I've kind of been a closet reader of these.

great social scientific works through the ages. And any and every Christian writer I could find who was also doing anthropology or sociology, I thought, I have to read these. So it was quite voracious in my reading of these figures over the last 20 years. And I thought, well, it seems like there may be place for a book that explores the social scientific tradition.

and looks at the roots and these proto social scientists like Plutarch, for example, or Herodotus. And so I talk about that in the book and then trace all the way up to the modern world where there was that great fracture between Christian thinking and the Christian heritage and the academy. And so that's kind of what I've done. I've also tried to be a little whimsical in the book and give some...

examples of what it would look like to be a humane social scientist who engaged in observing and interpreting one's culture and what that might look like and recommend some books along the way. So it's, I actually had more fun writing it than I imagine most people when they write a book, but I'm very excited about that. It probably will be out in February, March, April of next year.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (28:53.734)
And you picked a great publisher. We love our friends at Roman Rhodes, incredible, incredible people. So that sounds fascinating. And certainly something that I have not heard of being published in the last few years or so, especially coming from, like you said, from a humanist. So that will be really, really interesting to see. Now, obviously you're a lover of books at CLT. We are all lover of books. And so this last question,

Robert (29:12.194)

Soren Schwab (CLT) (29:22.502)
I know it's challenging and so many people have cheated on it and I don't know who was the first one to do, but you know, and so give them your laugh. I'm not sure if you will, but talk to us about the one book or the one text that you would point to that has been most influential in your life and why.

Robert (29:39.302)
Well, here's how I'll cheat. Many years ago, Homer's Odyssey was my favorite and I read it, re-read it, read it in every translation I could get my hands on, read it in the Greek. But then as time went on, the Dante's Comedia became my favorite and still is at the top of the list, but it's a funny short, short story. Around 2000, I was...

reading through books on my shelf that I had all these books, you know, and you say, have you read them all? No, I haven't. I didn't read, I had never read Fahrenheit 451. And I pulled Fahrenheit 451 off the shelf. It was, it's actually about 2008, 2009. I pulled it off the shelf and I thought, well, I'm not gonna read it because everybody, it's about censorship. Well, but I'll read it. And I'll tell you what, Soren, that was one of those books that I'm reading it and thinking.

It's not about censorship. This book's not about censorship. It's about mass culture. This book's about the speed of life. This book's about, and all these other things. It's not about censorship. And I was just stunned. And over the two evenings I read it, I told my wife afterwards, I said, I can't believe all these years I didn't read it because I thought I knew what it was about and I didn't want to read it. I was so repentant of that, that I then found out about the Ray Bradbury Center.

at Ui Pui, one of the greatest names of a university, Indiana University, Purdue University. The Ray Bradbury Center is there. I contacted them, went up there one summer, studied during the summer, went back the next summer because I wanted to do more research on Ray Bradbury and on Fahrenheit 451, ended up writing some scholarly articles on that. But while I was there, they said,

because we love your passion for Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. They made me a fellow. And then for about a decade, I traveled for the National Endowment for the Arts and gave talks at Big Reads. So my act of penance of discovering my favorite book late in life was to get the good news out there that this book is not about censorship and it is worth reading. And I would say reading it today

Robert (32:02.946)
you will be surprised, you'll be stunned at how applicable it is to the moment we live in. So that Fahrenheit 451 is my favorite. There it is right there.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (32:12.594)
Oh, pardon the pun, but I'm fired up just listening to you talking about Fahrenheit because it is one of my favorite books. And, but especially talking to classical educators, like, oh yeah, but it's a modern, it's a modern American novel, you know, it is, right?

Robert (32:27.722)
It's so bookish, it's so book related. And then if you get a chance to go see the play because Bradbury wrote a play version of it later in life. And that play, it kind of recast and re, it gives a different perspective to us, to some characters into some scenes, but it is so, so ancient and so bookish.

It's so wonderfully fitting for the moment we live in and for classical Christian education.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (33:00.202)
Oh, I love it. I love it. I mean, if that's not the case, to add at Fahrenheit 451 to your reading list, dear educators, please do, because you're right. It is life changing. I mean, it really is. And it's short. I mean, for our, you know, if you don't want to read the Andra Korinna type novels, it's a short, you can read in a few hours. It's not that big. Wonderful. Well, Dr. Woods, this was absolutely delightful.

Robert (33:16.325)

Robert (33:21.922)
Yes, yes, but it's deep.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (33:29.018)
Again, we're here with Dr. Robert Woods, who is the Headmaster at Veritas Christian Academy and also founder of the Great Books Honors Program at Faulkner University. Robert, thank you so much for joining us today.

Robert (33:40.75)
You're very welcome. It was my pleasure.

Soren Schwab (CLT) (33:48.002)

Robert (33:48.45)
Alright, yeah, it was a joy.