Anchored by the Classic Learning Test

Education as Community Service | Sarah Scudder and Angel Parham

February 15, 2024 Classic Learning Test
Education as Community Service | Sarah Scudder and Angel Parham
Anchored by the Classic Learning Test
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Anchored by the Classic Learning Test
Education as Community Service | Sarah Scudder and Angel Parham
Feb 15, 2024
Classic Learning Test

On this episode of Anchored, Kimberly is joined by Sarah Scudder and Angel Parham, co-founders of the Nyansa Classical Community. The three explore the need for classical education in communities where it does not typically exist. They also talk about success stories in which children found joy and support in their after-school and homeschool programs. Finally, they look at the ministry side of their outreach that equips parents, college students, and churches to serve their community through education. 

Show Notes Transcript

On this episode of Anchored, Kimberly is joined by Sarah Scudder and Angel Parham, co-founders of the Nyansa Classical Community. The three explore the need for classical education in communities where it does not typically exist. They also talk about success stories in which children found joy and support in their after-school and homeschool programs. Finally, they look at the ministry side of their outreach that equips parents, college students, and churches to serve their community through education. 

Kimberly Farley (00:01.817)
Hello, welcome back to the Anchored Podcast, the official podcast of the Classic Learning Test. I am Kimberly Farley, and I am thrilled to be joined here today by Sarah Scudder and Angel Parham. Sarah works as the director's assistant for Nianca Classical Community. She has over 10 years experience teaching elementary school at Claritas Classical Academy in Pennsylvania, where she also serves on the board of directors and as language arts chair.

She has also been involved on an advisory board for Sundial Classical Farmstead located in Michigan. Over the last few years, she has developed and written multiple curricula in Bible, phonics, literature, and other areas, alongside acquiring a master of arts in teaching and classical education from Templeton Honors College. Sarah lives in inner city Philadelphia, where she works alongside her husband in ministry at Bethel Chapel Church. They have four daughters who attend Claritas Classical Academy.

Thank you for joining us, Sarah. It sounds like you've been quite busy. And we are thrilled to be joined by our own president of our Board of Academic Advisors here at CLT, Angel Parham. Angel Adams Parham is a sociology professor at the University of Virginia. And she is passionate about education across the K through 16 educational spectrum. Her research and teaching are inspired by classical philosophies of living and learning that emphasize the pursuit of truth.

Sarah Scudder (01:01.919)
Yes, thank you for having me.

Kimberly Farley (01:27.801)
goodness and beauty. She homeschooled her daughters for 13 years and is the co-founder and executive director of Nianza Classical Community, an educational nonprofit focused on K through 12 students, which provides lower and upper school curricula in the humanities to schools and homeschools. Nianza curricular and programs are designed to connect with students from diverse backgrounds, inviting them to take part in the great conversation, cultivate the moral imagination.

and pursue truth, goodness, and beauty. Angel is co-author with Anika Prather of the Black Intellectual Tradition, Reading Freedom in Classical Literature, published by Classical Academic Press. And as I mentioned, she is our Board of Academic Advisors president. And thank you so much for being here today. I've really been looking forward to this conversation ever since I learned about Nianza. So Angel, why don't you start us? Tell us a little bit about Nianza. First of all, what does it mean?

And what's the inspiration for it?

Angel Parham (02:29.79)
Sure, thank you so much for having us here today. We're just so excited to be able to share with you this work. So first of all, Nyanza means wisdom in the Akan language of West Africa from Ghana. And that name is really chosen very deliberately. So the whole mission of Nyanza is to bring classical learning to a very diverse group of people.

And so even linguistically, we're trying to kind of signal that in the name, Nyan Sa Classical Community. And the little logo that's associated with it is an Adinkra symbol, also from the icon of West Africa. And that symbol is associated with a saying that means the one who does not know can know through learning. So that's a little bit of the background of the name and the logo. So how, how this all came about was when I was still homeschooling my daughters.

We were living in New Orleans and we lived in a very, pretty much like Sarah now. So Sarah, you know, lives in an inner city community in Philadelphia. So we lived in a very similar situation in New Orleans and my daughters were very young and I was homeschooling them. And, you know, we were just doing this wonderful, rich classical learning. Meanwhile, the families around me, the parents were struggling with their kids in terms of education.

and they knew that I was an educator. And so they would ask me, you know, what resources do you have? Or, you know, how can we work to try to get a better education for our kids? So about the same time that this was happening, a homeschool friend of mine, Danielle Bennett Dukes, another African-American woman homeschooler who was homeschooling classically, we got to talking and we said, you know, we should create a program.

that is community oriented that would help to give the kids in our neighborhoods a classical education. And so that is where Nian Sa came from originally. And so a lot of what we were doing at home reading these wonderful classic works, we started doing in the community. And again, we kind of braided them together with many diverse kinds of text.

Kimberly Farley (04:51.509)
I love that. I think it's beautiful that, you know, it originated from this real need in the community reaching out to you to say, how can we incorporate this? So has NEONSA always been used by homeschoolers or is it open for broader use than just homeschool education?

Angel Parham (05:10.85)
So from its beginning, it was really being used among children who were in public schools. So I and my co-founder were both homeschoolers, but the kids who were in the program were from public school. So really from the beginning, it's been trying to reach kids who often wouldn't have a classical education. However, as this is our eighth year, so as we have grown.

there have been many homeschoolers who've also been interested in using it, which I think works very, very well. So it's, it's really something that can be used in a variety of places. There've also been schools that have used it as an afterschool program. I ran it as an afterschool program for kids, mainly from public schools, but there have been classical schools. I've used it as an afterschool program. We had last year, a

a small alternative public school in Houston use it. And we've had some people use the curriculum during the school day, others after school, some homeschool. So it's really quite flexible.

Kimberly Farley (06:18.297)
Can you give us a little more information about, like, what does this program look like? It's Christian and classical? Is that correct?

Angel Parham (06:26.274)
That is correct. Yes, so we have lower and upper school curricula. So just to give you an example, the first year of the lower school curricula, it's 20 weeks centered around Greek mythology. And every week is a different virtue. And so we pair Greek myths with Bible stories around the same virtue. So they're kind of braided together. And then we also have biographies of

people of virtue that are good for children to emulate and who have really demonstrated the particular virtue that we're focusing on that week. We have picture study. So we draw a little bit on Charlotte Mason. We have narration. So all of these wonderful rich pedagogies that many classical schools and homeschools are gonna be familiar with, we have that integrated into the curriculum.

And then we also have an upper school curriculum with more complex text. So the one that we just got finished doing for upper school last year, for instance, the young people read the Iliad and they read it together with an epic from West Africa and the country Mali, the legend of Sundiata. So again, kind of putting these two things into conversation and that curriculum also has picture study, poetry, you know.

so many things that just make it really rich and alive. And Sarah, as we'll hear from, has had some really wonderful experience putting this into action with kids.

Kimberly Farley (08:03.693)
Yeah, Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about how you're using it this year, what that program looks like and what you've seen?

Sarah Scudder (08:10.243)
Absolutely. So I want to back up a little bit and just kind of talk through how I started to use Nanca's curriculum, which was two summers ago, I had met Angel through the MAT at Templeton and had heard about this and being from inner city Philadelphia and teaching at a classical school. It was, you know, love at first sight of here's classical education that I can bring to my community.

My children are having this amazing education and looking for ways that kids in my youth group and kids who I interact with on a daily basis can have the same access without ever really being able to step into a classical school. And so I had met Angel and used the year one curriculum with two boys from my youth group.

And so it was kind of more of a tutoring situation. One was in ninth grade and one was in sixth grade. And being able to work with them one-on-one and doing the Greek mythology and the picture studies really just resonated with them. And they kind of came to life. The tutoring had to stop about mid-year so I wasn't able to kind of continue it. But from that, my husband, who is the pastor at my church,

who also just has a heart for classical education with seeing what our children have kind of grown up into and how it's worked so well for them, had also kind of the same burden for the kids in our church. And so after seeing the tutoring with the two boys, we started working towards opening this after school program. So this October, we finally were able to

start classes and we started off with about 12 children and we have a younger group that's K through third grade and an older group that's fourth through sixth grade. They come in, they have homework help for a half an hour and then we just break up into these smaller groups and just run through their curriculum. So we currently right now are offering the literature, the Latin, the picture studies and Bible stories.

Sarah Scudder (10:29.403)
And it has been just so amazing to see. I've worked on this curriculum for years with Angel. I was hired about a year ago to work with her, but just in writing it and in kind of producing it, but now to actually teach it has been very just satisfying and just so delightful. From that, the children have just...

blossomed even in the one month that we have had it so far. Kids have looked forward to coming. They want to dress up. We have a section where we, you know, teach the Greek myth and we read through it and then the kids have a chance to narrate it back and we do that with costumes and with acting it out and the kids have started to actually start acting it out without that time.

I almost have to kind of keep them back and say, wait, it's not time to act it out yet. Like we're going to do that in a minute. We have to get the costumes out. They are, they just kind of stand up and start retelling the story. Um, and we have seen just some kids who have come to us, um, with very real academic struggles. Um, I have a third grade girl who, um, we found out doesn't, uh, is not able to read. Um, we had a lot of kids who don't know their times tables and are struggling in math. Um, and

Angel Parham (11:28.462)
Thank you.

Sarah Scudder (11:54.963)
and really from opening up conversations have told us about bullies in their school or feeling like they are academically unfit. And even though they don't use those words, we feel really what they're feeling on a daily basis. And when they come to us and are able to enter into discussion about paintings by Jacob Lawrence or virtues that are displayed in the Greek myths or in the historical figures.

and they enter into that conversation, it helps them to feel genuinely smart and intelligent because they are and it's just that they have been put into a system where they're made to feel less than. And this curriculum I have seen over and over again give children a voice to understand that they are smarter than they thought they were essentially.

Kimberly Farley (12:52.313)
you know, isn't that one of the beauties of this kind of education is that giving people a place to really think and engage with these ideas and giving them a hunger and a thirst for that, which is good, true and beautiful. And stories have an amazing way of doing that. So I love that we are, that you guys are offering such a story rich environment that really excites the students and gets them, gets their imagination going again.

Angel Parham (13:21.426)
I just want to, I just wanted to kind of echo what Sarah was saying in terms of the, the impact on the kids when they're coming from a very difficult background and, you know, aren't as well prepared as they should have been. Um, well, what we try to do at Nyanza is to have a, an environment where they really are learning some key academic skills and they're also really enjoying it and delighting in it. You know, that's, that's really important to us. We don't want it to.

just be an extension of a school day that's already frustrating for them. So we want them to be able to learn well, so you have the homework help. And then we would do things like the math facts that Sarah's saying, something that I found as well. And so we would kind of turn it into a game and we'd have flashcards and how fast can you get them and memorize them and then little rewards when they do it.

And then in terms of the stories, like what you're saying, one of the things that we just loved so much that we're hoping to do again this year, collecting from Sarah's program and other programs. Unfortunately, the one in New Orleans is not going anymore. But when I was there, when we were doing the Greek mythology, we had the kids write poetry.

And then we commissioned these beautiful images that were kind of reinterpretations of the Greek gods and goddesses from different ethnicities, just a kind of imaginative redoing of them. And the kids wrote poetry to go along with the Greek myths. And then we had the images and the poetry put together into a booklet, a poetry booklet. And the kids were just so proud, you know, like this was their own work.

and a local diner owner bought 100 copies of it and invited our kids over, treated them to lunch, and then had them sign copies for the patrons. And when I tell you, you know, these huge grins and lines of adults, you know, waiting to get their signed copy of this poetry book, it was really so beautiful. And you could just see the pride in the kids, that they had worked really hard. They had...

Angel Parham (15:38.734)
Learned the stories and then written their own poetry and then it was together with these beautiful images and now They were you know in this place of honor And so that's the kind of thing we want to keep doing is you have you reinforce those basic academic skills But you're also giving them the rich story the rich art and you know the writing outlet

Kimberly Farley (16:01.069)
What an amazing gift to have that the community location really partner with you guys and in giving these kids something of great value or recognizing the value that they had brought to something. So Sarah, tell us like how many days a week is your group meeting. Is it every day and you know how does that work as far as where did you get your students. Are they excited to come. How does that work within your community.

Sarah Scudder (16:29.035)
Yeah, so we meet two days a week right now, only on Mondays and Tuesdays. Just from the workers that we have, we couldn't do any more days than that. And so that obviously lessened the pool of children that we could have. A lot of times parents are looking for a five day a week homework help or a place to put their children. And we just kind of had to make the decision that it was better to have a...

group of children that we knew could meet Mondays and Tuesdays because that was what our workers could do. What we found very effective and has really been effective for our church even is that we were able to get into our local schools back to school night. And so in my neighborhood there are three elementary schools within like walking distance of our church really.

And so we weren't able to get into one of them, but we were able to get into the other two. And that's where most of our children came from. And then actually even from being able to build that community kind of tie through the afterschool program, we have also seen kind of a jump even in our youth group of connecting with families who now know that we're here, that we care about the community, that there are people who are active in the community from our church.

And so that has been almost a kind of revitalization of even our church members to see a new avenue to make connections to the people around us and to make a connection to families and to show that to our community that we care about the community so much that we want to enter into helping educate their children.

Kimberly Farley (18:17.101)
Was it difficult to find people, like, how were the kids? Obviously once they get there and they see what all they're doing, they're excited about it, right? Like, both of you have talked about, right? That this is just this amazing thing that they're excited to act out the stories, to look at the pictures, to write the poetry. But is that a hard sell initially? Like, come for extra education at the end of your day.

Sarah Scudder (18:41.931)
I don't think so. Some of it is a lot of these kids are used to kind of going to some form of after school program. That's what we found, at least with the children that are coming to our program. Parents didn't really give their children a choice. We were at the back to school night where there's tons of other programs that are offering back to school, and we just happened to be another one that they were signing up for. I will say...

If it was a hard sell for the children, once they got there, that really wasn't, hasn't been an issue. And in fact, this last couple of weeks, we, we lost a couple of children because their parents needed a five day a week. And so we always knew that was going to sometimes cause an issue. But I will say that kids who had to go into the five day week program, all cried and told their mom that they, you know, if there was any way that they could come back, you know,

please let them. And so we left that open to the parents of, yes, if anything changes, they are always welcome back. And they were so, so sad to leave us. They told their parents how much they felt loved and heard, and obviously not necessarily in that language, but their parents understood that we were something different from other programs that they have interacted with. And so even if we lost them, I'm glad that we made that impact for the time that we have.

Kimberly Farley (20:08.933)

So is Nianca in other programs, other places right now? Obviously it's a curriculum that you can use for homeschool, right? But are there other afterschool and more ministry-based things like you've got going, Sarah? Are those happening in other parts of the country?

Sarah Scudder (20:28.247)
Mostly right now we have a lot of homeschoolers who are using our curriculum. We have a group that's based in Atlanta that uses our curriculum as a part of their co-op. So they teach part of our curriculum and then also parents are able to continue that at home and they have appreciated the discussion questions and that kind of thing to be able to continue the conversation. We have a couple of places that are using it as supplemental curriculum.

Angel Parham (20:37.774)
Thank you.

Sarah Scudder (20:57.515)
within their classical school. So able to kind of bring in more diverse voices and writings has been a great draw for classical schools. And then I do have two programs who are using it as an afterschool. One is an individual woman who is kind of doing what I am with one or two students and is meeting with them and has had similar stories of.

just the children really opening up in that discussion time and grasping that those stories are not just stories that help them academically, but are stories that connect with them on a deeper level and have allowed her to have just really great conversations of things that they are personally struggling with and allowing that to kind of be effective. And then another, I think ministry type that helps.

people who are immigrants and who are wanting to provide additional education for their children. And so that group is using our curriculum currently right now.

Kimberly Farley (22:04.281)
So Angel, as you developed this, met this need initially in your own community, and then it has expanded from there, what are your, I guess your big picture ideas? Like, where would this go? If you had your, if all your wishes were granted, right, your dreams fulfilled, what would this look like?

Angel Parham (22:24.31)
Great question. First, I just have to say that Sarah is amazing. She is the reason that we're able to really multiply this way. She's just been wonderful in terms of getting new partners and helping to train them and really just keeping the vision multiplied, which it just makes me so happy. So the idea, I'd say that.

What I love about Nyan Saw is that it allows, it's a very kind of nimble way to get classical education to many, many students who are not getting a classical education. Of course it would be great if we had more and more children getting a full day classical education and we hope that continues to grow. But the vast majority of kids in our country do not go to classical schools and probably won't at least for a very long time.

So my vision would be that this would become something that is a well-known option for parents, for schools, even for homeschools, that the name Yansha is just well-known and that it's this, we really have worked hard to make the curriculum very much plug and play. You know, like, it's got very detailed instructions for

teachers or parents to use, everything is laid out, very easy to use. So you don't have to have a lot of training or any training in classical education, but we try to give you that training as you're using the curriculum. And then Sarah has set up monthly trainings with the instructors so that they're learning what is classical education as they're going along. So we don't see this just as, oh, we just gonna throw a curriculum at you.

It's embedded in the curriculum, there's training, and then there's actual training via Zoom every month to learn more about classical education. So I would love to just see it multiplied over and over again in schools and afterschool programs and supplements to homeschools would be wonderful. So that is my hope. We have also, we had a partner one year in Uganda.

Angel Parham (24:49.127)
So we are not necessarily stopping at the borders of the United States. We'd love to see it spread.

Kimberly Farley (24:56.325)
That's amazing. Just the support to be able to say, like, here's this, you know, here's this training from someone who's, you know, who has this capacity to pass that on to others. That's a real gift. What I do notice that you're including Latin in this, right? So I homeschooled my kids, but I did not have a classical education. And Latin was always that biggest barrier for me.

And so how are you incorporating that? What does that look like with people who maybe didn't have this education on their own?

Angel Parham (25:29.482)
So I would hasten to say that the way that we do Latin is really more providing entree for students to understand the Latin roots of the English language. So it's not so much we are going to teach you Latin and now you're going to be able to operate fluently in Latin. It's more, let's look at, it's very carefully done. We had a group of people who are involved in the Living Latin.

community, so a wonderful group of folks who actually speak Latin, who wrote one year of our curriculum. And so they used Aesop's fables and put those into Latin and then took keywords from that were the roots of English language to kind of show side by side, here's the Latin, here's the English so that you can see the relationship. And then we have a rich kind of

database of games. Like for instance for really young kids, a version of duck goose that is called Canis Lupus, you know, so it's dog and wolf instead of, you know, duck and goose. So just a lot again, a lot of fun ways of kind of getting it into their mind. So we see this as kind of wedding the appetite for, you know, taking a proper Latin course.

Kimberly Farley (26:53.061)
it. So as I'm listening to you all talk and I'm thinking about all the implications for both ministry as well as educational reform, right, just within your local community, right? We can't always do everything that we want to do to reform education, but you can be active in your own community in bringing a beautiful education to your neighbors. But I'm wondering, do you have any colleges, I think of so many of our beautiful faith-based liberal arts

a really good group of students that could do an afterschool program within their own community. Is that something that you've been exploring?

Sarah Scudder (27:32.595)
Yes, I have gone to Templeton, who is very intimate with classical education. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out yet to have students come and work with me. There is a distance, but I do have some promising potential students who could possibly come and help me. And we are pursuing that avenue. We think it would be absolutely wonderful to kind of

link arms with Templeton. I've also reached out to Cairn University, being here in Philadelphia, and kind of trying to make some inroads with college students. But being our first year, we're learning the ins and outs of how to make those connections for college students as well. I will say having the children come into our church has lit a fire amongst our congregants, and they have all kind of

plugged in, I had three women initially who were dedicated to helping me. We knew that the four of us were going to be the ones to kind of run it. And since then, we have gained three or four more workers in our church who wanted to be a part of it because of what they heard and what they had seen happening. And so it's one of those things I think once someone is there and catches a fire of passion for what we're doing, you kind of.

can't keep them away. And so I would say if anyone is ever wanting to do something, just go. I think it's hard to initially start something or to take the time and put that in your schedule because it is time that you have to dedicate. And so sometimes people kind of shy away from that, but I will say if you are thinking about doing it, do it. And you will find that you love it so much and how...

fulfilling it is that you will not want to stop. And several people who have come to work with us have said that, you know, they dreaded before it came, time to do it, but once we started, they honestly feel like it is refreshing to their week. It actually gives them energy. And so they look forward to doing it the next week. And these are people who were apprehensive to do it because they're already busy and already so many things to do.

Sarah Scudder (29:58.851)
they have found it's actually the best part of their week and look forward to coming.

Angel Parham (30:03.682)
Can I just add to that too, in terms of college students? So, Nianca got off the ground only because of college students in the sense that, so I was also working full-time as a professor. And so, we were just starting, we didn't have much money or even any money, but I had students and I did service learning in my.

courses. So I teach sociology and I would teach things on social problems, social inequality. And since I'm working in this inner city neighborhood, this was an excellent opportunity for students to do service learning. And so the students would come and they would get academic credit for working in the community. So I'd also say to, I know there are many professors out there who listen to Anchored. You can do this as well.

set up a service learning opportunity so the students actually get academic credit for what they're doing in the community and it's Enriching the learning that they're doing in the college classroom. So it's really a win-win Situation the students get a lot out of it the college students and there was a core that would keep coming back Semester after semester even when they didn't have to do it for college credit and then as Sarah saying, you know, people think it's going to be hard but

So the nice thing is that there's now a fully written curriculum for 20 weeks. When I first started it, we had no curriculum. So for six years, I would show up, I say, well, this is what we're doing today. And, you know, that is not easy. But now that it's a fully written curriculum and we've got training underpinning it, it's very, very approachable for someone to start.

Kimberly Farley (31:51.585)
All right, so if people are now very excited about it after learning more, how would they connect with you guys to maybe look at starting an afterschool program or using it in their homeschool co-op? What's the best way to get in touch?

Sarah Scudder (32:06.279)
I would say if you want to follow what I'm doing in Philadelphia and you would like to kind of stay in touch with how My personal after-school program is going you can go onto Facebook and look up Bethel after school It has a little book symbol that you can follow us and I would love to have everyone reach out to me and just Watch as we kind of go along this year if you want to know more about me on staff

you can visit our website at and fill out our contact information. And then we will contact you back and give you some more information, as well as you can sign up for our newsletter. And we put out a quarterly newsletter to kind of let you know what's happening at NEONSA and some new curriculum or how you can order posters or learn about our partnership, all kinds of things.

Kimberly Farley (33:05.553)
And just in case people are wondering how to spell it, it's N-Y-A-N-S-A, right? Okay, perfect. All right, well, I wish you all the best. I love what you're doing, and I think it would be amazing to see more and more kids who maybe don't have access to this beautiful, rich education to get at least a little bit of it in an afterschool program. So I would love to see that grow. Before we leave, we have to ask the hardest question

Angel Parham (33:12.966)
That's right.

Kimberly Farley (33:35.045)
podcast always. So I will give you all a choice of one of two questions to answer. You can either tell us the book that has most inspired you, maybe something that you return to again and again, or since we're talking about children and education so much, maybe you want to talk about your favorite read aloud. So I will let you choose how to answer. You can answer both if you wish, but I would love to just end on that note to give our listeners some more great reading.


Sarah Scudder (34:08.287)
I guess I'll go first. So I will answer both because I just can't not. So my book that's influenced me probably the most, which in the category of fiction, would be Piece Like a River by Lee Anger. I keep going back to that. And the ending scene of that has given me a different vision for life. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to spoil it.

that I keep going back to and every time it's just been renewing. As far as a read aloud for my children, I will say Sweep by Jonathan Oxyay. And the reason I picked that one is it was every time a homeschooler thinks about read alouds, right, you imagine your children gathered around you, listening intently and cuddled up next to you. And that really never happens. And it's a...

fantasy except this one time when I was reading Sweep. It got to a certain point in the story and one by one my children all found themselves cuddled up next to me as I was weeping through reading the last pages of the book. And we all just kind of sat there together huddled and I will just always remember that because there has not been a book really since then that has happened. And so that to me stands out as the.

greatest read aloud experience that I've had with my kids.

Kimberly Farley (35:38.661)
Okay, those are two new ones for me. So now you've really intrigued me. I've got to look those up. Okay, how about you, Angel?

Angel Parham (35:46.634)
Yeah, I'd say for a formative book, it's a collection is the Grimm's Fairy Tales. And that's also one that is great to read aloud. And I carried around my version of Grimm's Fairy Tales when I was maybe 10 or 11 or so, so much that the thing actually fell apart. Just kind of this really imaginative world and...

Of course, they are actually grim too, you know, so you have to be kind of ready. But I love the Grimms' fairy tales, so much depth there. And then more recently is the poetry of Phyllis Wheatley. I should say the poetry in letters, because they just give so much beautiful insight into ways of thinking about American history and the American project.

that I kind of wish I had grown up seeing American history through the eyes of Phyllis Wheatley. You see someone who was brought here in slavery, but then who was graced to get an amazing education, who was at the heart of the American Revolution in Boston. She has this transatlantic audience, just a really amazing woman. And I think it provides this lens into

looking at the American founding that, you know, she has the commentary in her letters and then she has her poetic reflections. And I love that combination.

Kimberly Farley (37:21.349)
Well, some excellent suggestions. I hope everyone goes and picks those up. I know I was introduced to Phyllis Wheatley while reading The Black Intellectual Tradition. So yeah, that's fantastic. We did read that as, you know, as a company, we read it and it gave me a whole new vision and I have been adding to my reading list ever since we read that book. So it has populated several of my audible selections. So

Angel Parham (37:31.042)

Angel Parham (37:43.98)


Kimberly Farley (37:49.057)
All right, well ladies, thank you so much. We wish you the best in what you're doing at Nianza and would love to see it grow. And I encourage our listeners to reach out to you guys.

Angel Parham (37:58.882)
Thank you so much.