Rekindling Civil Discourse Through Education | David Rancourt

In this episode of Anchored, Jeremy is joined by David Rancourt, provost and VP of enrollment at the New College of Florida. They discuss David’s journey from playing football under Bobby Bowden to advocating for classical education. They dive into the history of New College of Florida and the campus’ culture of civil discourse that allows people to hold and discuss a wide range of opinions and beliefs. They also talk about the media coverage of New College of Florida and David’s experience navigating the press. 

Transcript

Jeremy Tate (00:01.4)
Folks, welcome back to the Anchor podcast. We have a guest today. One of the most fascinating life stories I think you're going to hear on an Anchor podcast or any podcast we have with us today, Dr. David Rancourt, who is the provost and the VP of enrollment down at New College in Florida, a college that has been in the news, maybe more than any other college over the past couple of years, as there was a big board change that I think CNN and Fox and everybody else has been covering.

David has been there in the thick of it all. David, welcome to the Anchor Podcast.

Dr. David Rancourt (00:35.168)
Thank you, Jeremy. Good morning.

Jeremy Tate (00:37.602)
So we always love to start off and to just learn a little bit about kind of our guests early childhood education. I was totally checked out. I was bored to tears in school as a young child. What was it like for you? Some of your early memories? What kind of schools did you go to?

Dr. David Rancourt (00:52.492)
Well, if you told some of my high school classmates that I'd end up in academia and a PhD, they would probably laugh at you. I'm sure they would. In fact, they've laughed at me and at me. I share that part of your journey. yeah, I'm kind of a classic American success story. And not to say that I'm a success, but certainly have led a life that has created opportunities for me that were

were handed to me, encouraged to me, and that I sought and ran through the door when presented that led me here. So, born in Florida, my dad was a baseball player and was traveling in the season. So my older brother, younger sister were born in Massachusetts where my dad was from. He played with the Cincinnati Reds. was drafted before the draft. His team was Holy Cross. They went to the 58 World Series and four or five guys got drafted in my.

Jeremy Tate (01:34.51)
Like he was playing major leagues or?

Dr. David Rancourt (01:46.464)
My dad was a hot prospect because he was a left handed hitter in a right handed position. He was a catcher, but he was a power hitter lefty. So the Reds signed him, Yankees wanted him, Reds signed him. And so he was playing in Tampa when I was born and my mom was from Lakeland and was working in Tampa when they met. So my dad played with Pete Rose and Art Chamsky and a lot of those guys in the Big Red Machine. So I grew up around baseball. It was pretty cool. But he got hurt and didn't make it to the Bigs, went up for some spring trainings, never made it to the Bigs.

decided to go to his hometown. And Jeremy, I grew up in a quintessential Norman Rockwell painting. And really in a town not too far from Stockbridge where Rockwell did a lot of his work, obviously, for the Post magazines and others. But 2,000 people on either side of the river. My dad was a bit of a celebrity because he was this ballplayer that married this Florida girl and moved back home.

He bought a little clothing store that turned it into a way to put three kids through college and raise a family with a nice head start from baseball. So I grew up in a town where I knew everybody, everybody knew me. It was a great way to keep me from misbehaving because I couldn't do anything and not get caught. So I grew up pretty straight laced in a small town.

Jeremy Tate (03:00.622)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (03:03.978)
and got a really neat opportunity my junior year. So I grew up about equidistant between my hometown Shelburne Falls. It's about sort of midway between Williams College and Williamstown and Amherst College and Amherst and sprinkled in a lot of these New England towns or these boarding schools that have been there for a couple hundred years. And I had a very unique opportunity. I was a pretty good athlete and Deerfield Academy was next door.

And so they invited me or, you know, invited me and encouraged me to apply. was fortunate to get in probably by the skin of my teeth and, and spent two years at one of the last at the time, all boys boarding schools in America. And, know, went to school with the, you know, the privileged elite of America that were expected to graduate and go on to college and rule the world in the country. an incredible motivator for me because I was around people that not only were ambitious,

and had great expectations, but much was expected of them because much was given to them. And so I grew up in an environment where I was grateful for the opportunities I was given. An education at Deerfield at the time probably cost about $10,000 a year. And they would tell us that the actual cost of it was about 30 at the time. And alumni who came before you, one did that difference. So be grateful for it. So I grew up in sort of a philanthropic environment by osmosis, if nothing else.

And set my sights pretty high. was a three sport athlete and a two sport captain my senior year. know, Deerfield graduates go on to Dartmouth, Princeton, Harvard, yeah, yeah, football wrestling, believe it or not, and baseball. So I was football and baseball captain. I learned to wrestle my junior year, the most humbling experience I've ever had, because you're on a team, but you're out there alone.

Jeremy Tate (04:35.495)
I'm guessing football, baseball, and basketball. Okay.

Dr. David Rancourt (04:49.824)
And when you start as a 17 year old, you end up on your back a lot. And, you know, it's pretty humbling to really be bad at something when you got a pretty high sports ego. So was very good lesson for me on a lot of things. And I was terrible my first year got pretty good my second year, but it took me a while. So I ended up aiming high and I my sights on candidly the one of the best schools I I had a chance to go to because their football team was so bad. And for those of you who know the Ivy leagues that rules out most of them, but Columbia.

Jeremy Tate (04:50.36)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (05:18.144)
So I applied to Columbia and thought I was going to get in and found out the week I graduated coach called me and pulled me out of class to tell me, can't get you in. So this is a story that resonates with a lot of the people that I recruit and that we seek to recruit at new college. know, everybody that we recruit wants to go to Ivy's to Nescah's because that's what great educated people, well-educated people seek the best opportunities.

Most of them don't know about this little college in Florida that happens to be a public college that's a fifth of the cost that avoids all the indoctrination and all the mess that you get at these other schools. So I've jumped ahead a little bit, but it created for me the greatest sense of failure when everybody expected me to get into one of these schools. And I didn't get in and I got into some good schools in the Northeast, but I said, you know, if I'm going to pay my way to go to college and not go where I want to go, I'm going to just throw my hat in the ring and see how I do. So I sent my films to Charlie Pell and Bobby Bowden and

didn't hear from either of them and after graduation drove down to Gainesville and didn't see anybody or nobody paid any attention to me. And then I drove through Tallahassee and happened to walk into coach Bowden's office as he was walking out of his office. He came over, shook my hand, slapped me on the back and I told him, said, I'm David Rancourt. was at Deerfield Academy. I don't know if you have my films. he, sure if Bobby Bowden never met a stranger, I'm sure he absolutely no idea who I was.

But he looked at me, slapped me on the back and said, you look like you can play son, go down and see Jimmy Callaway. He'll get you set for uniform and you're now an early walk on. So I was a walk on in the 84 team. We went to the Citrus Bowl. I got to go to the bowl game. I got a ring and a watch. I never embellish my career at Florida State. I was on the scout team, never set foot on the field during a game.

But I never missed a practice. So I gave those first teamers a good look and made it hard on them so they were better on Saturday. So that was my role as a football player at Florida State.

Jeremy Tate (07:05.827)
Yeah.

Jeremy Tate (07:14.818)
And folks who may not know anything about football, I Bobby Bowden is maybe the most legendary name in all of college football. He coached from the seventies until I think 2006 or so at Florida state. So that's amazing. Fullback, inside linebacker. Okay. Okay. The first time I met you, I was like in person. I'm like, this guy's played football before, you know, this guy's played football.

Dr. David Rancourt (07:31.158)
Linebacker, linebacker, yep, yep, yep. Had a great nose for the.

Dr. David Rancourt (07:38.69)
Yeah, it's hard to hide your physique, you you just made this way. So yeah, so it was a joy playing for Coach Bowden and one of the people that you meet in life who is just absolutely true to his reputation, to what people thought of him, one of the kindest, most decent, most competitive, tough, hold you accountable guys I've ever met in my life. And frankly, I had high school coaches.

Jeremy Tate (07:55.053)
Hmm.

Dr. David Rancourt (08:04.61)
A guy named Jim Smith and Dave Bodenstein that were very similar were father figures. And I think football is a uniquely American thing that makes our country stronger because you play against guys who you know are better than you. They're bigger than you and they're stronger than you. And you got to get up play after play, go face them for four quarters. And it toughens you and it makes you better, makes you stronger and you don't always win. So and there's one ball and 22 guys on the field. So it makes you very team oriented. It makes you realize that everybody has a role to do things in life. So was a lot of fun.

Jeremy Tate (08:18.958)
Hmm.

Jeremy Tate (08:33.602)
Now, when I first started to hear a little bit of your story, I was thinking how many guys who played under Bobby Bowden ended up taking an interest in Aristotle and Plato and the life of the mind. When did this begin to happen? Were you already kind of thinking big questions when you were an undergrad at Florida State?

Dr. David Rancourt (08:51.682)
I had some professors and teachers at Deerfield that were, and really in my public school before that, that were very inspirational. I think Florida State probably, because it was in the capital city, I pledged a fraternity. was a Pi Kappa Alpha at Florida State, and my fraternity was a bunch of type A driven guys that were very competitive. mean, pick up basketball, know, elbows and fights among brothers just over a silly game.

So very competitive guys that wanted to run the campus and win. And frankly, two brothers approached me my freshman year and told me they were going to flip a coin. They ran each political party. They were going to make me a student senator. Whoever lost didn't fill the seat against me. So I ran unopposed as a student senator my freshman year. It's sort of how fraternities rigged the system, at least in student government back in the day. I think the statute of limitations is run on that, so I'm safe to admit that.

Jeremy Tate (09:34.67)
Okay.

Dr. David Rancourt (09:46.262)
But so got into student government and then a man named Jim Smith, who was the attorney general of Florida was running for governor and his daughter was a friend of mine, asked me to get involved in her dad's campaign and run a student effort to help. Been in Florida for six months, maybe a year and I thought sure. so Jim and Carol sort of adopted me as a sophomore at Florida State and I helped Jim run his campaign. ended up losing, was actually a very conservative Democrat back in the day in the 80s.

Jim ended up losing and then later switching parties when Governor Martinez won and Martinez appointed him to Secretary of State. So Jim went on to be Secretary of State. And as I got out of college, my being in Tallahassee around politics, I got involved in the George H.W. Bush campaign. So I was the Florida chairman for Students for Bush in H.W.'s first race. And of course, he won.

which led to other connections and opportunities. And then I decided I wanted to either go to law school or grad school. And grad school ended up winning out. So I ended up at the University of Florida for two years getting a master's degree in their political campaigning program. So I learned a lot of statistics, polling, focus grouping, and a whole lot of tactics and communication and PR stuff, as well as the history of a whole host of things in the country as far as political campaigns go. So I was actually educated sort of to go into the field that I went into.

Never, I my parents were the most apolitical people you can imagine. They own business, so the last thing they wanted to do is offend half their customer base. So just ended up into it by accident and thoroughly loved it and finished it Florida and had an opportunity to become political director, which is a really great title, but it meant I waved signs in the streets, made coffee for the volunteers and cleaned the toilets in the campaign office for Mike Villaraquiz's 1990 campaign. Went back to Tallahassee to work for Smith.

back to Bill Arrakis to run his 92 campaign, which he was successful. In the meantime, went back to work for Smith, enlisted in the National Guard, spent six months active duty in the Army, and then was in the Guard for a few years. And then went back to Tallahassee when Smith ran for governor again in 94. And it was the most amazing experience of my life. I mean, I was 27 running a campaign for a sitting attorney general, or sitting secretary of state who was running for governor.

Dr. David Rancourt (12:08.642)
with a real chance to win. And Jim came in second place to a guy named Jeb back in that 94 campaign. So there was Jeb and the four others. so the four others were at 16, 13, and 12 and whatever. And Jeb was at about 32. So we conceded. Jeb won the election. And I established a dear friendship with his campaign manager first at the time, who we absolutely didn't like each other when we began.

Jeremy Tate (12:15.246)
Okay.

Dr. David Rancourt (12:34.722)
And then through the concession of us getting out of the race, I got to know Sally Bradshaw and then Jeb. And then a dear friend, Rich Heffley approached me because we lost our race, ended up in an agriculture race for some strange reason, lost that. So I am the only guy that you will ever meet who lost two statewide elections in the same year for the same candidate in the same state. So a couple of the most important momentous opportunities in my life were great failures, but learn from them, toughen them.

and then got an opportunity to be Florida State Election Director by a woman named Sandra Mortham and her chief of staff was Rich Heffley. So my experience at the time was having run and lost two statewide races in a master's in political science. So they put me in as the state election director. I mean, amazing opportunity. You got to learn all about elections, voting systems. I was the first guy to oppose the adoption.

of electronic voting machines. We called them DREs back at the time, direct recording equipment, because I thought the conservatives won't trust this. The liberals won't trust it. They'll hang us in effigy if we ever approve these things. And lo and behold, you see what happened several years later. And of course, I was the state election director through 98 and then went to work for Jeb as his transition coordinator. I vetted and recommended all the personnel that he hired from agency heads on down. And then I served for a year so as his deputy chief of staff.

And then of course, in 2000, Bush v Gore, and I was the immediate former state election director in Florida. So I had a lot of opportunities to poke and cajole. So I just happened to be in the right time, very blessed, very fortunate. had mentors and leaders who were good, God-fearing people. I can tell you on a couple of occasions, Jim Smith fired me once because I told him when I accepted the job that I was going to leave my wife at the time in Clearwater and she was going to move up six months later and his wife and

Jeremy Tate (14:06.772)
my gosh.

Dr. David Rancourt (14:27.714)
he and his wife looked at me and said, if she doesn't come with you, you're not coming as much as we need you. We're not separating newlyweds. So in politics, I've worked for people and Jeb Bush included who at a time in my life where things were very, very upside down, Jeb offered me opportunities and things that no boss should ever offer an employee just out of the graciousness of his heart. So I found good men to work for and woman in Sandra Mortham.

Jeremy Tate (14:50.392)
Mm.

Dr. David Rancourt (14:53.536)
that were good and decent people in politics. So I never saw the ugly side or the bad side of politics. I was blessed to find the best people in politics. And then I worked for Jeb for a while and I was broke, tired and told him I needed to make a living and I didn't know what I was going to do, but I needed to leave. And he was very gracious and allowed me to leave and decided the market. Every opportunity I got was to lobby. I had an opportunity to work for an insurance company, but everything else was to be a lobbyist and never wanted to be a lobbyist.

but the market was telling me something and I was the first guy out of Jeb's administration. So I connected with a decade old friend named Paul Bradshaw. created a company called Southern strategy group and we built it in about a year and a half added a guy named John Thrasher, added a guy named TK weather all both who became Florida state presidents in time, former house speakers and built this six or eight, top tier high level, achieving successful guys.

None of whom had ever made any money in their lives because we'd all been in public service. And it was a time to, you know, use the context we had and represent companies before Florida government. And we built the company from, from about 10 clients when we started to about 300 independent clients in about 21 offices in 18 states. And, you know, I made a lot of money, fortunately. And at some point I decided I'd had enough that it was kind of eating at my soul when I saw that politics had transitioned from relationship based advocacy to really.

sort of a, I won't say a transactional, but how much money you raise became a very, very important element in your ability to succeed in Tallahassee. And it just wasn't an environment I wanted to stay in very long. And the people that do it are honorable. They do it legally. They fight hard and they represent their companies well. But I had had enough. So I retired, sold my stock, my company to my partners and went on about a six or eight year walkabout where I was a consultant on a number of things, had some successes and failures.

Jeremy Tate (16:28.046)
you.

Dr. David Rancourt (16:48.62)
but decided eventually that it was time for me to go back. Always wanted to get my PhD, never had time. Went back and I wanted to pursue nationalism, but I got convinced by a university professor. I wanted to study in Europe. We were living in Spain at the time just because we could frankly. And I met a professor at the University of Bucharest, the Eastern European guy who grew up under the communist rule who told me that my experience in politics suited me perfect.

to write a dissertation about it, but under the guise of moral theory and philosophy. And I hadn't taken a lot of philosophy classes, but I always appreciated the greatness of Western civilization. The Great Books was always a huge fan of Greek mythology. Ironically, Roll the Clock Forward, it's a huge part of our program here, The Odyssey, and decided to jump back in. So four years later, I found an opportunity at the...

Jeremy Tate (17:29.496)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (17:39.178)
University of Bucharest and the College of Philosophy to pursue my dream of a PhD, studied moral theory, studied, you know, the Timmons and the classic applications of morality and ethics, and then applied that moral lens on the practice of lobbying and wrote a 400 page dissertation that'll put you to sleep. But it was, was riveting for me. So just a very blessed, very fortunate guy who's been placed in opportunities that I didn't deserve and was at least good enough and hardworking enough to pursue them well.

And when I finished my degree, I reached out Richard Corcoran at the time, who I'd known since my days in 1990. Richard and I met waving signs for our respective principals on the highway of US 19 in Newport, Ritchie. I was working for a congressman. He was working for a state rep. And our paths crossed year in and year out. We were never close. were never, I wouldn't say we were brothers or even.

drinking companions or cigar companions. We just knew each other and respected each other. Richard's Lane was the house, my lane was the executive branch. But we always knew each other and his boss at the time, his law partner reached out to me and said, you guys need to connect. You guys have so much in common. And I said, no, I know Richard. goes, David, I'm telling you, you guys need to connect. So Richard and I started hanging out a bit and then I went back to finish my degree. And then when I finished, I reached out to Richard and I said, man, I see what you guys are doing. Congratulations.

And by the way, maybe my condolences too. That looks like a pretty tough gig. And his response to me was, do you want to be a part of this? And so here I am.

Jeremy Tate (19:12.024)
So David, before we hop into new college, just quick question. I have no idea. Lobbying, I when you did your academic work here and in your PhD, is it a new concept or was this like alive and well back in the Roman Empire? And it's just been around as long as we can tell.

Dr. David Rancourt (19:28.672)
Well, are, are, I wrote in my dissertation and my committee chair corrected me and said, you may want to rethink that. I wrote in my dissertation that lobbying is the world's second oldest profession. And of course everyone knows what people refer to as the first. And my professor said, you may want to think that. And I rethink that. And I said, how's that? He said, don't you think there was a lobbyist encouraging Eve to eat the apple? And I said, hmm, there you go. So.

Jeremy Tate (19:42.99)
Hmm.

Jeremy Tate (19:56.01)
Dr. David Rancourt (19:58.218)
not to shade my former colleagues or my own history, but it's a thoughtful approach to it. yeah, lobbying, wherever there's power, wherever there's money, there are people that seek to influence that power. And whether it's a formal sense or an informal sense, the term lobbyist arose either in the 16th century England, 17th century around parliament, or if you believe the American version, it was Ulysses S. Grant who stated the

Jeremy Tate (20:02.733)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (20:26.72)
the Willard Hotel frequently or went to the Willard Hotel to socialize. And when he left, was a cadre of men out in the lobby waiting to talk to him that became the term, that begat the term lobbyist because they were hanging in the lobby. So, two different versions, but it's been around for very long time.

Jeremy Tate (20:40.2)
Interesting interesting. Alright, I could pick your brain about this forever. Well, let's let's turn to New College. So I mean, this has been all over the news. Everybody and what I've put together. Not many people had heard a new college four or five years ago.

And now everybody has heard of new college. Everybody is, watching as there has been a transition. A lot of folks who listen to the anchor podcast, love everything Florida's doing, education front, you know, fighting to get ideology out K to 16 out of higher ed and K 12 as well. and new college has been at the very heart of this story of, Florida educational renewal. if you could just tell our listeners as a quick refresh, like what do you, what is

New College of Florida. Give us a 30, 60 second history if you could of this.

Dr. David Rancourt (21:31.244)
Sure, and there are a number of misnomers, misunderstandings, and sort of falsehoods on everything that's going on, and really maybe from all sides. All of the credit for this really goes to our governor. And Florida has 12 universities in the public system. And New College was founded as a private college.

And it was founded by educators who had grown tired in the 60s of this rote learning that had gone on in higher ed. And they had seen where GPAs were starting to increase. And the more you paid, the higher your GPA. And where people weren't really learning fundamentals and the classics of education. So they created this new formula of education, really based on a very old formula, the Oxford Tutorial style, under the Socratic method of

discourse in enabling men and women, young men and women, the opportunity to debate, to sharpen, to hone opinions, to develop critical thinking skills, and to be challenged and to challenge others. And so that's what New College began and became an amazing college, very small college, graduating 50, 60, 100 people at a time. And then it went into some financial difficulties in the 70s or early 80s.

Jeremy Tate (22:40.611)
Mm.

Dr. David Rancourt (22:49.62)
It was brought into the state university system, became a part of USF, and then separated with a lot of leadership who thought Florida should have an elite liberal arts college. We have these great southern universities with 40, 50, 60,000 students with Greeks and college fraternities and sororities and amazing student government things and apparatus and great sports that are world renowned and nationally known. But why can't we have a great liberal arts college based on the classics

based on the Western traditions of small classroom learning. And my opportunity at Deerfield, brings me back to that. They call it the Harkness Table in private education. And the Harkness Table, as you sit around the table, you show up prepared and the faculty member leads the discussion. He doesn't lecture, she doesn't lecture, but they lead the discussion and students are expected to contribute and to debate and to win arguments and to lose arguments. And there's no place to hide. And I joke.

I tell our students now, if you're not prepared for class, you might as well walk up to the professor, the first part of class and say, I didn't do my homework. I'll come prepared tomorrow. I'm sorry. Own it. Because they're going to figure it out pretty quickly because our average class size is 12 or 13. We have a seven to one faculty ratio. Our faculty teach two classes a semester because they have a massive load of advising and working individually with our students. we, we, what we have here is a graduate level education at an undergraduate level.

Jeremy Tate (23:57.272)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (24:16.674)
at a cost of a state university system that is the lowest in the country that happens to be the highest rated in the country. And all credit to the Florida legislature for 20 years and the governor to Sanis who said, you know what, new college was failing. had really for years was an elite honors college and it had sort of morphed into a failing alternative college. And the governor and the legislature said that isn't what we want in our public system. So we're gonna fix it. We're gonna correct it and make it amazing again.

And they appointed board members that I don't know how you could assemble such a cast that include illuminaries and personalities like Mark Bauerlein and I mean, Matt Spaulding, I mean, and Chris Rufo and local dentist and eye doctor who are pillars in our community that live in this community and live with the, know, of the banter that goes in back and forth with their client basis.

Jeremy Tate (24:55.768)
Love Mark, he's the best.

Dr. David Rancourt (25:12.544)
So we are truly blessed to have a great board and a leader in Richard Corcoran that is fearless. mean, Richard was at the helm of the Department of Education in Florida when the first state to say, we're not going to wear masks anymore, we're going to open schools. And despite what Randy Winegarden wants to say, they weren't supportive of reopening schools. They didn't want to eliminate masks, but we did in Florida and led the way out of the COVID pandemic. And all of the while that this was going on, the legislature and the governor were trying to figure out a way to rebuild new college.

They funded it well and they drafted a president who had since left state government again and Richard was out working and consulting and law and probably going to make a ton of money to let his family live peacefully over the next decade or two, but decided that with a little recruiting from the governor to come back and be a part of the new college experience. So we went through the process of a search committee and Richard ultimately prevailed.

and has led this place with with grace with dignity and with patients that that i frankly i admire and how he does it he's on he's on the front line he's taking the punches every day as is the governor as our board members but they lead with so much respect and with not a mean spirited bone in them and they come forward to say we don't care what you believe if you're a high achieving student that's interested in coming here and respect your peers engage in civil discourse

hone your critical thinking skills. If you want to come here and take a graduate school curriculum, graduate school approach to education as an undergrad where every professor not only knows your name, knows your story, and you know theirs. If you want to come to a place like this, come here. We'll give you a great scholarship, and you will make a difference in this world because you are trained not for that first job when you get out, but for your last job when you're a part of running a company.

and we train you for the whole gamut. And that's just, it's a blessing to come to work here. I you, I come to work four days out of five, I go home thinking I'd do this for nothing. On that fifth day, I wonder why I'm doing it, but that's another matter. But it's been a joy and a journey.

Jeremy Tate (27:13.862)
David, let's talk about the media coverage just a bit of this. I mean, you have, you know, CNN and MSNBC and your typical kind of mainstream media establishment, you know, this hostile conservative takeover of this sweet little college in Florida. And then I get down there and I talk to students. meet, I see what's actually going on and y'all were making New College, New College again.

Like taking it back to what it was always intended to be it had become something very different The media coverage was so silly. I thought like when I got a sense of what was actually happening What has that been like though to navigate? You know a lot of bad bad information

Dr. David Rancourt (27:55.394)
It's a brilliant observation and because you've been here, I know you've felt it. There was a reporter, I won't say a national newspaper with a magazine that came down on campus and spent two weeks in one of our dorms, which doubles as a hotel, had unfettered access to any of our students that were mingling on campus and on a number of occasions got back to us, they're gonna write a story. I'm like, let them write a story. And the reporter left and told our comms director, I came down here to write a story about

Jeremy Tate (28:15.842)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (28:25.398)
you put chocolate in our peanut butter. But there's no story here. These kids get along, they like one another. We created 12 varsity sports in less than a year. We brought in student athletes for the first time. We had a lot of returning students that were culturally, you know, very, very different cultures. But our student body, returning students and new students really embraced the opportunity of being decent to one another. And I tell students all the time, I mean, if you're an athlete,

Jeremy Tate (28:27.842)
Wow.

Jeremy Tate (28:38.093)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (28:53.142)
Go to the Black Box Theater, go to these music performances, be in awe of these young men and women and their skills. I mean, they're not athletes necessarily, but their skills are just as important and frankly in many ways more lifelong than your ability to play the sport you're playing. So get to know these kids. And we had an amazing performance. We had a donor who decided they wanted to help us create a music ensemble, sort of a small orchestra at New College. 100 days ago, we started it. This Wednesday night,

We had the culmination of the first semester and we had 10 of our students on stage. It was accompanied by a man named George Maxman, who's a world-class renowned conductor. And he brought in some local musicians to augment it. And we had a young woman who's an international student who plays soccer, is one of our best soccer players who was on stage doing a part of that ensemble on a quartet of violinists. And, you we have students that are so gifted in so many ways and probably an impeccable

rating in her academic performance as well. So we've really embraced and our students have embraced this opportunity to get to know one another, go into different lanes, express themselves and appreciate what other people do. And I think, Jeremy, you know, the great part of education is you learn in classroom from world-class faculty. But two-thirds of your time is in the dormitory, in the dining hall and relaxing on campus.

And that's where the banter between young men and women and the great debates of philosophical debates that go on. And I do the introduction to civil discourse at New College. I've done it four times now. And I use music as the metaphor. And I ask the students, and I don't tell them necessarily that this, I don't start with this is about civil discourse, but I tell the students, we're going to talk about music. So I want you to tell me who your favorite musician is in the modern day of recording, the modern recording era. Who's the best? Who's your favorite? Think about it.

Jeremy Tate (30:22.125)
Hmm.

Dr. David Rancourt (30:46.902)
Google some facts and be ready to have a conversation about it. Give them a couple minutes. And then I ask them to turn left and right and have a conversation with a person that they know least next to them and express their opinion on who's the best. Listen to the other student. And you can see as this goes on, the conversation gets louder and louder. You see people singing and you see people, our emotions and all of that. And it's just fun to watch. And then I pause and I say, I want three people, four people to stand up and state their case.

Jeremy Tate (30:55.918)
Hmm.

Jeremy Tate (31:05.656)
Ha

Dr. David Rancourt (31:13.33)
and they do it with passion and they make it great why Elvis or Freddie Mercury or Jay Z or whoever it is, is the best and always will be. And then I throw someone up that they've never heard of like Chris Christopherson and I talk about the great writing and the poetry of an Oxford Road scholar and a Pomona grad and they're like, who are you talking about? And then I say to them in the end, who among you was able to convince your conversation partner that you were right, that your musician was better than theirs? And I've done this four or maybe five times.

never had a hand raised. Nobody's ever going to be able to convince someone on something so personal as music that their opinion is right and their conversation partner is wrong. But they have a good time doing it. They enjoy something. They learn something about a new friend and they express an opinion to a friend and everybody has a good time doing it. And that's civil discourse. And if we can do it in music, we ought to be able to do it about really difficult issues of the day like healthcare and abortion and immigration and everything else that's tearing this country about.

apart and if we don't figure out a way how to communicate like this orally with one another and stop texting and stop shading and stop the meanness, we're going lose this country. And I think we are a part, and this sounds arrogant as all get out, but I think we are a part at New College of saving America from itself. And if we can do it here, we can get away from indoctrination from any side where a public college let people believe and think what they want to think and bring their life experiences to color their opinions and going forward with a deep

Jeremy Tate (32:33.486)
Yeah.

Dr. David Rancourt (32:39.926)
base of knowledge and experience of what's going on in history and how Western civilization evolved rather than just an uninformed opinion on something they saw on television.

Jeremy Tate (32:48.59)
Well, I have been thinking since day one with this, you know, that the stakes are high and the stakes are high because everybody's watching, you know, how is this going to go? And what I love so much about what new college is doing is it's it's breaking kind of the, the, the uniculture, right? I was in a room with mostly left of center people a few months ago, academics, you know, college administrators, and they're, trying to figure out how do we, how do we break the, uniculture where kids are terrified to be anything other than, know, this, this new kind of a orthodox

And what you're doing in new colleges, and I think they're doing this at St. John's in Annapolis, but I don't know of too many others actually, is bringing students together, left, right, center, Christian, Jews, ASEAN, whatever, and saying, let's talk about the things that matter most. It's really hard to do, but it's, so needed. mean, I can't imagine anyone, any employer anywhere who doesn't need people who can do

that really well.

Dr. David Rancourt (33:49.858)
And Jeremy, you know, I'm a foot soldier in this battle. know, people, God bless Richard Corcoran and Mark Barrowline and you risking, you know, reputation, treasure and everything on what you're doing with the CLT and bringing in different perspectives, different opportunities for people to prove they're worthy of a great education. And it's not easy. I think it's easier on the young side than it is the adult side.

Jeremy Tate (34:04.344)
Thank you.

Dr. David Rancourt (34:15.938)
You know the lack of diversity of thought in higher ed is well known, it's well documented. I don't need to cite a single statistic. You can figure it out very easily. And if faculty aren't willing to be challenged and to embrace faculty who think differently from them and believe differently from them and allow faculty with different opinions to come in and access students and let the students learn from them as well, if you have a one-sided education, you don't have a fair broad-based

preparation for society. not going to have great citizens. We're not going to have great employees. We're not going to have great spouses. And all of this endures to the benefit of civilization. And we've got to do it. And kudos to you. I mean, you are out there on the front line and doing amazing things and proud that Florida has embraced what you're doing as well. So thank you.

Jeremy Tate (34:58.99)
Thank you.

Jeremy Tate (35:03.32)
Awesome. David Rancourt, I love the work you're doing. I think as a former three sport athlete, football player, you know, for Bobby Bowden, I can't imagine anyone more perfect for this role where you love athletics, but you love the life of the mind and you love what New College has now recovered. So folks, check New College out. What do you recommend if we've got college counselors listening, parents,

Do you recommend visiting if students want to learn a bit more? What do you recommend?

Dr. David Rancourt (35:33.984)
Yeah, we are one of the unique schools in the country that requires an interview of all admitted students, you know, before they're processed and finished, because we really want to get to know our students. We want to know about their character. We want to know about their intellectual curiosity. We want to know why they want to come to New College. Of course, we recruit. We want the best and brightest here. But we also want good citizens. And we want people who, you know, who may have had a bad semester because something in their life derailed them.

who are willing to admit it and say, I got through this challenge. I had a family member die. My GPA went to trash. And that's why I've got a 3.4 and not a 4.4. And will you consider me anyway? And the answer is absolutely, because the things that people go through in life's challenges. And again, you may do better on the CLT than the ACT or any one of your other competitors. So take different tests. mean, broaden your mind, broaden your opportunities, but come to a preview day. Preview day, we go through our very unique academic program, our counseling opportunities.

our unique grading system where we give a detailed narrative rather than just a letter or a GPA. We give a detailed narrative on how you did. So if you're a high achieving student and you go in a class and you pass it and you sort of breeze through it because it was easy for you and you're a genius, your faculty member is going to call you out and say, you were lazy in this class. You passed it. You did everything well, but you could have done amazing work. And if you're a struggling student like me, Jeremy, and you overwork and outkick your coverage in classes, then they're going to say,

This does not come natural to you, but you got through it anyway. mean, put me in a statistics class and watch me sweat. So there's a lot of both sides of that. So come to a preview day. It's the best way to learn about what we're doing.

Jeremy Tate (37:03.384)
You

Jeremy Tate (37:08.206)
Previewed and there's not an easier college to visit. You fly into Sarasota. Soren and I walked to camp. It's like it's like a quarter mile. You know the airport is right there. It's so easy to get to. It's amazing. Again, we're here with Dr.

Dr. David Rancourt (37:19.274)
And Jeremy, for those of you in cold weather climates, we invite you to come down in December, January, and February and wear shorts and enjoy classrooms in Florida. So I'm shameless about our weather.

Jeremy Tate (37:27.266)
That's right. It is mind-blowingly beautiful campus as well. Again, we're here with Dr. David Rancourt, Provost VP of Enrollment at New College in Florida. David, thanks for being on with us and thanks for the great work that you're doing down at New College.

Dr. David Rancourt (37:42.006)
Thanks, Jeremy. It's an honor to be here and a great pleasure to see you again, my friend. Take care. We'll see you soon.

Jeremy Tate (37:46.446)
Thank