The Purpose of Education | Tucker Carlson

On this episode of Anchored, Jeremy is joined by Tucker Carlson, host of Tucker on X and The Tucker Carlson Show. They discuss the ultimate purpose of education as arriving at wisdom, rather than merely accumulating knowledge. They dive into the connection between ugly architecture and the pursuit of evil. Tucker also talks about his regrets surrounding his children’s education. 

Transcript

Jeremy Tate (00:01.465)
Folks, welcome back to the Anchored Podcast. We have a guest today that truly needs no introduction. and I were on Chad GPT last night. put in most influential journalists in the world. And our guest today came in at number one, Tucker Carlson. Welcome to the Anchored Podcast. Thank you so much for being with us.

Tucker Carlson (00:04.269)
Thank you. I've never used chat GPT and now I never will. No.

Jeremy Tate (00:24.657)
Don't use it, but it does say you're number one. Christian Amanpour came in at number two. I don't know how they base it. So Anchor Podcast, we love to talk about education and we love to start off just hearing a bit about your education growing up. When you think back to school as a young boy, did you love it? Did you hate it? What was that like?

Tucker Carlson (00:30.101)
Ugh. Ugh.

Tucker Carlson (00:43.693)
I'm not the right one to talk to about this. I know you all are making the best faith possible effort to improve America's education. I have just been, I've been an opponent of school since really the first grade. I just hated every second of it. I was in it. I went through all four years of college and then finally was failing out. I just got married. But no, I was a resolute enemy of school the whole time.

Jeremy Tate (00:52.473)
You

Jeremy Tate (01:11.307)
Okay.

Tucker Carlson (01:12.125)
And mostly it was my fault, it wasn't all my fault. felt that I love, mean, education is really important to me. I get up early every morning to read. read every night. Well, I read all day. That's all I do. And I really believe in being informed and thinking things through. I love educated people, genuinely well-educated people because, you know, they're trying to understand the world around them. And that's really...

Jeremy Tate (01:22.957)
Yeah.

Tucker Carlson (01:39.629)
really care about that a lot. So I'm for education. I couldn't be more passionately for education, the schools that I went to, which were 100 % private schools, I didn't spend an hour in public school my entire life. Who knows how much money my father spent on the whole project for my brother and me a lot. I got almost nothing out of it at all. I learned to smoke cigarettes. I developed a drinking problem ultimately, but I found my wife.

You know, so was both good and bad, but it didn't, it didn't work for me. I felt that it was conformist and small. I did. Yes. I married the headmaster's daughter to which I attribute my high school graduation. My brother who went to the same boarding school that I went to did not date the headmaster's daughter and was thrown out. So I, I, I was, I was pretty adaptive. No, I married her and so I don't feel bad about it, but, no, I felt that it was conformist and I felt that the teachers.

Jeremy Tate (02:10.605)
Well, married the head of school's daughter, is that right?

Tucker Carlson (02:34.455)
for the most part weren't as smart as I was. They probably were, but that was my arrogance. I was very arrogant as a child and I felt that I was smarter than my teachers. Again, I probably wasn't, but I did think that even at the expensive private schools that I went to, one of which was like well-regarded schools, lots of smart kids, I felt that the teachers were not impressive by and large with a few exceptions. I still remember the names of the exceptions, but in general they weren't.

And they were small minded people who were caught up in the sort of politics of school and they didn't understand, they'd never been anywhere. They'd never seen anything. They didn't understand the world. They weren't wise. So I, the whole project was tough on me. And I felt from first grade through college that the whole thing was geared toward girls, know, rule followers, the list makers, people who highlighted the reading with different colors, people who sat in the front row.

Jeremy Tate (03:32.985)
Totally, yeah.

Tucker Carlson (03:33.078)
people who would regurgitate what they were told, who were unwilling and certainly unable to think for themselves. I felt like the whole system was designed for their benefit. And some of them were smart and I like them personally, but I didn't respect them at all. And I still don't. I don't respect people who don't think for themselves. And maybe I was just miscast as a student. Maybe it's not the system's fault, it's mine, which is likely true. But since you asked me,

I hated it really every single second I was there.

Jeremy Tate (04:04.953)
So Tucker, I've asked this question to some folks who have spent their entire life in the education arena and sometimes they can't give a coherent answer at all. Very basic question, but an important one. What even is education? How would you begin to define it?

Tucker Carlson (04:19.371)
Right, Okay, so it's interesting that you asked that. I went to a high school that I don't think is all that great at the moment, but had at various points in the last hundred and whatever years had been a great school and had some genuinely smart, deep, dedicated people teaching. And my first class, 1983, I'm in third form or ninth grade, the first lecture we got was about the purpose of education and what is the purpose of education.

And the purpose of education is to enliven and enlarge your mind, to tell you things you didn't know to get you thinking, out of which we hope you will arrive at wisdom. Like the point of knowledge is to get to wisdom, because wisdom is the goal, not the accumulation of data, a machine can do that. And why do we seek wisdom? We seek wisdom to make better decisions. And one of the byproducts of having all this information and

arriving at wisdom is that you become a better person to live with. You are more interesting to sit next to at a dinner party. He actually said that in class. You're a more interesting dinner partner. And people can mock that, but intercourse between people is the joy of life. And you become a much more effective participant in that intercourse when you know things and when you've thought them through and you've had to grapple with them. And I just thought, you know, that's the kind of thing you could say, well, that's like,

classic Wasp shallowness or whatever, which of course it is, but it's also deep. It's also deep. Like genuinely educated people, people who know a lot, have seen a lot, have thought a lot about things, have opened their minds and let reality in. Those are the people you want to sit next to at dinner. Those are the children you want to have. That's the person you want to be married to. Like it really makes a difference when you're around people like that, rather than around like people in the tech world who are sort of the opposite of that, whatever. You see what I'm saying?

Jeremy Tate (06:16.195)
Tucker, the language of wisdom, and I would suggest this isn't even part of the lexicon in mainstream education, but it is biblical language.

Is there an inherent tie, I mean for generations, education was intrinsically linked to faith formation. Education was often just called formation. He's being sent away to formation. What is that connection there? Does there inherently need to be a connection? Is education inherently about the moral formation of the next generation?

Tucker Carlson (06:24.937)
Yes.

Tucker Carlson (06:45.979)
Well, there are really kind of two potential purposes of an education. One is to make you a better person and the other is to make you a better employee or servant of the state or servant of some large organization, the military, whatever. And perhaps you can do both simultaneously. The Brits did. They had a martial society for hundreds of years during the course of their empire. And they did a great job at their famous public schools, Eaton, Harrow, Charterhouse of like creating soldiers.

but also creating statesmen and one hopes creating Christian men. And so maybe you can do all those things at once. I feel like our system is, well, now it's become a third thing, which is like existing for its own sake. It's a self-licking ice cream cone. There is no actual purpose. It just exists to continue existing. But I think for many years, certainly in the course of my education, the point was in general to make you a better employee.

And like if you think the purpose of life is to work for a bank, which I don't, think it much more probably to burn down a bank. But I mean, even if you're against burning down banks, it's definitely not the purpose of life is not to work for a bank, okay, period. But if you go into the system design with that goal in mind, you're gonna create a system that turns out crappy people. And we certainly have done that. Like our country's problems are the result of a bad leadership class that was formed in schools.

Jeremy Tate (08:08.888)
Hmm.

Tucker Carlson (08:12.369)
And so you do have to point to those schools and be like, what were you trying to make? Were you really trying to make like Victoria Nuland? Cause you succeeded, you know?

Jeremy Tate (08:21.113)
So and that kind of gets my next question here. How bad is the situation right now? mean is it is that are we in a state of absolute crisis or is it just need some reform?

Tucker Carlson (08:32.072)
I mean, I personally think it's irreformable, if that's the word. Maybe I'm revealing my bad education by saying it, but I think it's past the point of reform. I think that there are certainly many usable, salvageable buildings. Like the campus of Bowdoin would be like an awesome weekend retreat or a homeless shelter. There's something you could do with the husk of these institutions, but.

But the innards of the institutions are just eaten up with cancer. mean, it's terminal. I don't think there's any chance of reforming it at all because it's too big, it's too well-funded, and it exists. Let me just say one thing. This is the key to everything in higher education, and to some extent secondary. All institutions fundamentally exist to self-perpetuate. And the larger they get, the more explicit they are about that. We're doing this to protect ourselves as an institution and to grow as an institution.

There's no point beyond that. And in this way, they're very much like organisms, know, simple amoeba. What's the point of an amoeba? Well, it's gonna get bigger. There's no reforming that. It's not like they're liberal, that's the problem. No, the problem is organic. It's like fundamental, it's deeper than that. No, their purpose is to reproduce and to enlarge and just to create more jobs for more people they know and continue doing the same thing at greater scale.

Jeremy Tate (09:28.227)
Sure. Yeah.

Jeremy Tate (09:36.995)
No.

Tucker Carlson (09:58.425)
So how do you reform that? You don't. And I do think that the economic shock that we're entering right now, which is totally real, part driven by ADI, part by demographics, lots of reasons that we're going into a downturn that could be severe, that will apply some cleansing pressure to higher education. My friend of mine just bought a college, the whole college in Vermont for like 3 million bucks, dorms, library, power plant.

Everything I mean while these places are going under and I think that will accelerate in the next couple years for sure

Jeremy Tate (10:34.477)
You have a few different videos. One is with Chris Cuomo, I believe, where you're speaking about architecture. And it occurs to me that the turn from beautiful classical soul of lifting architecture and the turn from classical education towards this what I call secular progressive education, education with the different telos in mind, like you said earlier, education aimed at a job rather than the formation of souls. But that these shifts happened at the same time with architecture and education.

wonder if you could speak about this connection between education, architecture, and the things we build.

Tucker Carlson (11:10.039)
Well, really started at, I mean, the seeds were there, you know, well, probably going back to the beginning of history, because the seeds are spiritual in nature and just ever-present until the world itself is redeemed. So, I mean, what you're looking at is evil, and evil is the enemy of God, the counterbalance to God.

but it's also the enemy of beauty. And so the way that you know whether something is good or evil is by its effects. Does it produce order? Does it produce chaos? Is it committed to truth? Is it wedded to deception? Does it produce beauty or does it produce ugliness? And so my critique of architecture, which is not very deep or informed, I'm not an architect, though I'm a lover of architecture, applies across the arts, across the humanities, really.

And so literature that is inherently ugly, that celebrates the deformed and the grotesque and the chaotic and the unhappy, the diseased, is itself like a kind of literary brutalism. It's just a first cousin of the FBI building in downtown DC. It's ugly on purpose. That's the point. Now, why is something ugly on purpose? Well, it's ugly because it is evil and evil is ugly, right? But it's also...

Jeremy Tate (12:18.305)
Mm-hmm.

Tucker Carlson (12:27.716)
ugly because the effect on human beings of ugliness is to kill them. So ugliness kills people. I'm not, I don't mean this in like a shallow aesthetic, like can't be gay sense. Ugliness kills people. mean, like literally ugliness does kill your soul. And so if you're surrounded by it and not just by ugly things, ugly objects, buildings, paintings, but by ugly ideas or ugly sounds, you are diminished by that. It, that hurts you, that kills you. And

Jeremy Tate (12:32.985)
Hmm.

Tucker Carlson (12:55.943)
The mirror of that, of course, is barefoot on your lawn at dawn on a June morning and you just feel enlivened and you feel closer to the creator of everything you're seeing. You're more alive than you were. So it's just, you know, it's two sides of the same coin. But we should recognize what it is. It's not just that like every artist in America all of a sudden simultaneously started painting like paintings you couldn't understand or didn't elevate you. They made you feel oppressed. It was like...

Jeremy Tate (13:02.457)
Mm.

Tucker Carlson (13:25.137)
This happened across the society as soon as we dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima. As soon as we assumed god-like powers, eliminated God, he died, we're gods now thanks to technology. Like, is it a surprise that everything that we produce, the things that we make are the clearest indication of who we are in the same way that your children are the clearest reflection of you. So the works of our hands, the words of our mouths, the ideas of our minds, like that's who we are.

Jeremy Tate (13:31.033)
Mm.

Tucker Carlson (13:55.111)
And if all of a sudden in society we're not making anything worth having, the things that we make are ugly and disposable and cheap, flimsy, flashy rather than beautiful. And all of that's true. If the architecture we make makes people feel smaller, less free, less themselves. If our architecture and our art and our literature denies the existence of the human soul, it's evil. And it happened.

Jeremy Tate (13:59.693)
Mm.

Jeremy Tate (14:22.841)
Yeah, I...

Tucker Carlson (14:23.581)
My theory is it happened at that moment.

Jeremy Tate (14:26.051)
I've been listening to you since, you know, crossfire days, CNN, you know, early 2000s. I graduated high school in 2000. And I'm wondering if you would have, one of your best interviews is with Jason Whitlock.

You all have a great conversation. Was there kind of a spiritual awakening? Would you have talked this way or seen it this way 25 years ago? Or did something happen in your own life where kind of the scales fell off and you had maybe some more clarity into this ultimately being a spiritual battle we're talking about?

Tucker Carlson (14:57.402)
Well, I mean, you you just, you really do change as you get older. You tend to get a little fatter, which is distressing. You know, there are good things and bad things about aging, but at least I'll speak for myself. One of the things that I have learned is how often I can be wrong and have been wrong. And so that's kind of distressing. You hate being wrong, but I certainly have been wrong a lot. But simultaneously you learn, well, so is everybody else. And...

the idea that you would kind of like trust a consensus or go along with a prevailing view because everyone else is doing it. Like that doesn't even occur to you when you get past 50. A. B. You become much more comfortable speaking what you know to be true without having to justify it by citation or Wikipedia entry. It's like, I know this. So for example, I just said, I think that the West changed dramatically after dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Jeremy Tate (15:36.537)
Hmm.

Tucker Carlson (15:55.142)
Of course, everyone hates you for saying that because everyone loves violence and war because it makes them feel strong and makes them feel like God. So they absolutely hate it when you criticize their violence, whether it's abortion or war. But I never would have said that because it sounds kind of kooky and everybody hates you when you say it, but you reach a certain point and you're like, I really believe that's true. Can I prove it? Can I prove God exists? I don't know. No. You know, I'm dead certain of it. And so I'm just going to say it.

And by the way, having watched, just because I lived in Washington my whole life and followed this stuff closely and knew the people making the decisions, you watch other people's assertions like overthrowing Saddam Hussein, killing Saddam Hussein for some crime that we participated in, but whatever, that that was going to set off a chain reaction of Belgians across the Middle East, that they were all going to flower into self-governing democracies with civil societies and everything. Watching smart people make that

prediction confidently, I'm like, I don't know, I feel a little bit liberated. Like if Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz can promise me that Saddam has nuclear weapons and killing him will make Iraq into Belgium, then I guess I can say what I think too. And what I think is our society has become incredibly ugly on every level. And not every level, I mean, there are beautiful people with beautiful things to say, creating beautiful objects, but

in general, at the mass market scale, our country has become much more ugly intentionally so since August of 1945. Now, maybe you disagree, but I think I've got a much higher likelihood of being right about that than Wolfowitz had about what happens in post-war Iraq. So I just don't feel like I have to hide that anymore. And like, what are you going to do about it? You know, I mean, of course, if you're against violence, you're immediately a Nazi. mean, we know that, right? Because

Jeremy Tate (17:49.593)
you

Tucker Carlson (17:50.177)
The Nazis were very against violence. So you like make Ben Shapiro mad or whatever, but like that doesn't even matter. Just to answer your question one second, as you get older, the opinions of people you don't love, who don't love you become less important and the opinions of people you do love, like your wife and children and your college roommates and your employees and your nephews, like those become more important. You know what I mean? You just like, there's a winnowing and you just can't care what...

Barry Weiss things anymore because there's just not time, because you're moving toward death.

Jeremy Tate (18:23.129)
Well said. There are thousands of folks listening to this podcast that are part of a movement, a movement that I think has been off the radar for much of its history. In 1973, there were about 13,000 homeschoolers in America. Today, it's over 5 million. Even 30, 40 years ago, there were only a few classical Christian schools. Now there's more than a thousand. had Doug Wilson on your podcast. He's been one of the leaders in the movement for more than 40 years. This is a movement where they have an entirely different vision, again, for

Tucker Carlson (18:24.676)
hahahaha

Jeremy Tate (18:53.113)
what education is and these parents, know, it's not, this isn't easy work. You know, they are laboring every day. are no shortcuts in forming the soul well, the next generation. I am so encouraged by the work they're doing. I've toured these schools and I'm blown away. I never thought schools could be like this. You meet the students, they're polite, they're respectful.

They have beautiful penmanship. They're deeply engaged in what they're learning. I'm wondering if you would have maybe just some words of encouragement for the folks that are laboring in this classical education movement.

Tucker Carlson (19:26.692)
Honestly, I'm not just pandering. I think my single greatest regret as a parent and one of my greatest regrets in life is not homeschooling my kids. And I really wish I had, like you say, your kids, have four children who I am very close to, talked to all four today, and love and like most parents love their children. I'm hardly unusual, but you say to yourself, like my kids are the most important thing, but I didn't act that way.

because I knew the Episcopal schools that I sent them to, which are basically identical to the Episcopal schools I went to, in fact, literally the same school for three of my kids, they suck, actually, and they don't share my values at all. And how could I have sent my kids to that? I don't really know. I haven't thought about it too much because it makes me so upset. By the way, they turned out great, all four of them. But I still think...

Jeremy Tate (20:08.472)
Thank

Yeah.

Tucker Carlson (20:23.443)
As a measure of my love for them and my devotion to them, I should have done more to educate them myself, whether it was formerly homeschooling or having a reading list that I kept up with. know, one of my children I did that with, and who just loved to read, and I was very like, no, you can't read that book, that's garbage, read this book. I was much more intentional about one out of four.

I probably shouldn't be saying this in public, but I was, and it really paid off. Like this child is like very, in fact, I just got a book this morning from somebody and I'm sending it to this one because he loves books. But I should have done that with all of my children and the idea that they wouldn't be socialized or wouldn't have friends or all the propaganda you learned as a kid that I grew up with living in an affluent world. Like, I mean, part of it was social.

Jeremy Tate (20:53.794)
Mm.

Tucker Carlson (21:14.378)
The homeschoolers like evangelicals, they're like handling snakes at lunch or something. It's like, I grew up in a world that was very snobbish toward American evangelicals. And we associated, I always liked them because they were pro-life. Just to be blunt, I've always been pro-life. I've always been opposed to abortion. So I was always kind of on their side in that way. But it was just a cultural thing. It was like, that's just not what we do in our world. Like we send our kids to boarding school. We don't do that at all.

Jeremy Tate (21:19.629)
Ha ha.

Jeremy Tate (21:25.122)
Okay.

Jeremy Tate (21:28.941)
Yeah.

Tucker Carlson (21:42.626)
I'm ashamed of that. I should have done that. And it would have been so fun. By the way, I have a neighbor who was actually a former governor of a state. I don't want to embarrass him by saying his name, but he was a, he's a famous guy. was a governor of a state. He's got a ton of kids and he's a thrifty care. He's kind of rich, but he's thrifty. And he's like, you know, for all the money we're spending at church school, I'm going to take a year off, get a van and drive around all 48 states. And we're going to study each state as like,

our American history course and he did it for a year with his children and I thought that was the, I was like, why didn't I do that? And the reason is because I was so absorbed with my job and I didn't have enough money and I was always working for more money. I don't know. And I had bad priorities is the truth. I should have done that, but I didn't. So God bless the home schoolers.

Jeremy Tate (22:13.624)
Yeah.

Jeremy Tate (22:29.923)
Well, the greatest blessing you can give kids is a good marriage. And you've spoken about that as well. your kids turned out great. And I think that's maybe the reason why. So thank you for speaking there. Tucker, you mentioned earlier reading when you wake up, reading before you go to bed. We always love to ask our guests on the Anchor Podcast, the book that's been maybe most formative for you. If there's one that maybe you return to, you reread every year, what would that be?

Tucker Carlson (22:36.088)
Yeah.

Tucker Carlson (22:59.362)
Well, the only book I've read... So we take a week vacation in December and a week vacation in August as a family every year and always have. So on that vacation, I read P.G. Woodhouse, who's a British comic novelist, died in 1975, wrote about 100 novels. He wrote the Jeeves series there. He started writing right about the turn of the century, wrote for like 70 years. My whole family reads them. Everyone reads one.

I read usually one or two of those. I read one history book on those trips. And then the rest of year, I just read the Bible. That's it. That's all I read. so I'm now so real. And now I've kind of narrowed it down. I just read the New Testament. So I'm going to I've read the Old Testament. Mixed views, but I do love the New Testament. So I would say right now my favorite book is Axe. I just think it's an unbelievable story. Now, it's also the easiest book by far to read.

Jeremy Tate (23:53.121)
Okay. Wow.

Tucker Carlson (23:58.301)
in the New Testament because it's just an adventure story and I happen to be right in the middle of it right now. He's just gotten to Jerusalem. He's just so brave. mean, Paul is, you many people in Acts, but Paul is the hero.

Jeremy Tate (24:02.133)
Yeah. huh.

Jeremy Tate (24:08.269)
He gets stoned and walks back into the city that just stoned him. It's incredible.

Tucker Carlson (24:12.361)
And not in the way that I used to get stoned as a kid in California, but actually hit in the head with rocks by the religious leaders. I mean, he's amazing. He's just so unbelievable. mean, my favorite scene actually, and I've read it many times, but in this read through, just remind, that's my favorite scene in the whole Bible. And he gets locked up, and then the angel comes and breaks the fetters, and then the jailer's about to kill himself. And Paul's like, no, no, no, no, no.

Jeremy Tate (24:18.999)
Yeah.

Tucker Carlson (24:43.008)
unless I'm mangling this. And then they're like, okay, you can go now. And he's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not leaving until you come and apologize. Like I'm a Roman citizen. I don't have to take this from you at all. And then sort of like slowly leaves the city, like spends that. He's just so totally unintimidated. He's like the, and they all are, all the disciples are that way. But Paul is just, you know, is the subject of it.

It's just this incredible adventure story. And it is kind of fulfillment of what is predicted in the gospels. Jesus keeps saying, certainly in John's, which is the book that precedes it, he's like, you you guys are going to be in serious trouble because of me. Serious. And I'm not really sure that they believe it. Who would believe that? But Paul is living proof that that was true. And his posture in the face of persecution is just incredible. And the last thing I'll say is.

The thing about Paul is he converts, right? Walking to Syria, walking to Damascus. And then he comes back and the first, I think the first sermon he gives, they start plotting to kill him. Like there's something about his message, which is anti-violent, of course. It's not even judgmental. Like he's like, yeah, I was just trying to kill all these people. Now I'm one of them. He's not self-righteous in the slightest. He's the opposite of self-righteous. He admits.

Jeremy Tate (25:57.689)
Mm.

Tucker Carlson (26:09.204)
His flaws, like right up front. He doesn't want to overthrow the government. He doesn't want to hurt anybody. And there's something about that message that makes everyone want to murder him.

Jeremy Tate (26:17.312)
yeah, literally says they're grinding their teeth as he's preaching.

Tucker Carlson (26:20.965)
It's crazy. what is it about the Christian message that makes people bound and determined to kill anyone who gives it voice? Like to me, that's evidence that it's just real. Like if it wasn't like what, like what's the possible justification for persecuting Christians? Like the world's only nonviolent religion, you know, those Christians, they're told to like respect the government, work hard, love their spouses.

raise decent children, not overthrow the government, turn the other cheek when they get hit in the face, like, why are we mad at them? And yet everybody's mad at them and everyone wants to kill them. And so if what they were saying were untrue, they'd be fine. That's what I believe.

Jeremy Tate (27:05.817)
Dr. I've got to say it before you go here. You don't sound like many Episcopalians.

Tucker Carlson (27:11.712)
I'm not really anything. I grew up in that church and my family's been involved in that church for hundreds of years. I don't go to church. I just read the Bible and talk about it with my wife. I've got nowhere to go to church. We have services at home sometimes, but we just did two funerals ourselves. I'm not recommending this to

Jeremy Tate (27:37.453)
I'm sorry about the passing of your father.

Tucker Carlson (27:40.461)
I'm so, no, it was such a great blessing in many ways. But anyway, and I'm certainly not speaking for all Christians or even as a Christian. I am a Christian, but I'm I'm not trying to influence anybody else. I'm, because I'm not worthy of that at all. And I don't speak on behalf of any denomination. I, there are things about the Episcopal Church I love, but you start to get these Wiccan ladies in charge and it just becomes a grotesque parody of.

Jeremy Tate (28:07.167)
Sure.

Tucker Carlson (28:09.119)
Christianity and I don't want to be involved. And I feel the way about a lot of church. I feel the way about a lot of evangelical churches telling me that I have to support Netanyahu because what? I mean, it's like insane to me. So I don't want anything to, I don't want to be critical. I just, I don't want anything to do with any of that. I'm just going to read my Bible and, and, and maybe God, you know, there are changes ahead for me and I wind up in some church somewhere, but right now, no thanks.

Jeremy Tate (28:35.577)
My greatest influence Tucker is GK Chesterton, a British journalist who like you has outspoken for the faith and became a great apologist as well. So thank you for speaking true. Thank you so much for your time coming on the Anchor podcast. I'd to have you as a guest again sometime in the future.

Tucker Carlson (28:53.744)
I loved it. Thank you for having me.

See you man.